New to the forum, and it looks like I've got a lot to learn. First, Help me start up my kit?

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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #32
    there are 4 panels not up against the wall, at the left side of the house and we had 40 Km/h winds with gusts to 60 this last week and all upright, 
    btw high winds are a regular feature for us, 3000 ft elev. bottom of a steep valley......... 

    I use some large rocks to keep them upright ~ 50 # / rock, 2 per horizontal 2 x 6  'foot' on vertical frame, you  can see the 'foot' in one of the pics, 2 on each side of the frame, 
    you might want to make the foot a bit longer than the 4 to 5 foot ones I used, just used what I had handy.
    a crude 'box' to hold the rocks or ? in place if they wobble might help too.  A rebar 'stake(s)' if the ground is not all rock?



     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #33
    Having the house as a wind break behind, I suspect helps more than anything. I've had 4 panels, perhaps 6 feet tall in a 45-45-90 frame with 100 lbs of topsoil on the cross piece across the 90 and had it flip over in 40-50mph gust in an open area where I was building an 'A' frame. What is amazing is only the top panel cracked! They are amazingly tuff!


    My cabin setup was steeper but had several trees behind it. It's had 60mph straight line winds with out a problem.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #34
    How about a ground? How do you make a ground for everything? Rod in the ground connected to wire?
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #35
    I don't know if you are meeting the same code but here in BC you now have to use a copper plate, not a rod. (Even though Hydro still uses them on the power poles up here...??) And 6 ga copper wire multi-strand.  As has been detailed here recently, you can have a lightning ground at the  array site and that should be bonded with the main house ground to keep the ground potential equalized (as much as possible).... AND SPD's are recommended in a number of places, number dependent on your design. https://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=SPD

     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #36
    Do I need a ground? Only my inverter and my generator has a grounding option and I think I read in the manual that it's got built in protection.
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited November 2016 #37
    And say I want to add a duplicate panel kit (2x160w 12v) and up to four batteries (4x6v). Will two of these cheap Chinese charge controllers work independently for their panels while on the same battery system?
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    #38
    Grounding is for safety (and in a few situations, such as florescent tube fixture starting--for proper operations).

    If you have a small/relatively portable system in a cabin. Grounding is not really required (few lights, cell phone charging, etc.).

    If you are wiring the cabin up like a home with extensive AC wiring--Then you probably want to follow code (cold water pipe ground and/or ground rod for grounding battery bank negative and, for PSW/TSW inverters, ground bond the Neutral wire).

    If you have a MSW inverter, do not ground bond the AC neutral. Only ground bond the battery bank negative (ground bonding the AC neutral and DC battery bank Negative will "short circuit the inverter").

    If you have lightning in your area, grounding the DC and AC returns, and grounding the metal frames on the solar array to a close by ground rod (lots of details to discuss)--But basically, you want to keep the lightning energy "outside" of the cabin.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #39
    It also looks as though I should consider an mppt controller, considering I'm focused on winter use. And if I had four panels I'd arrange them in series, because for some reason that creates more efficiency? So many options, such little time.
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #40
    Chachoriffic said:
    It also looks as though I should consider an mppt controller, considering I'm focused on winter use. And if I had four panels I'd arrange them in series, because for some reason that creates more efficiency? So many options, such little time.

    No, usually an MPPT type charge controller works most efficiently at about 2x the voltage of the battery bank.

    There may be reasons to run higher voltages, the usual exception is, if you have a long distance from your array to your battery bank/charge controller.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    edited November 2016 #41
    Oops--Whatever I was thinking--It obviously did not apply here.

    Thank you Mcgivor.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #42
    Think Bill is referring to another thread involving a shaved ice vendor.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #43
    Signature updated. 

    I have ground plates and a big ass wire/cable running from it, in the unused cabin. The previous owner was aiming for some sort of off grid set up. I haven't looked these ground plates, but I'll dig it out tomorrow and see if it's of any use.
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #44
    MPPT chargers are rarely worth the extra coins unless you run over 600 watts. Your batteries may be cold, I would spend the bucks on a battery temperature sensor. Some controllers have a built in temp sensor which is alright if the controller is around the same temp as the battery.

    A lot of battery temp sensors have telephone wire "cabling"....while only using 2 of the four super skinny wires. A large rodent could chomp through the "cable" in one bite.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #45
    Two more questions:

    My battery charger states that I need a grounded AC source. My generator is self grounded. Does that suffice?  It's probably going to have to for now, until something breaks or I die lol

    For my 10awg cables running from inverter to battery, what fuse is not necessarily the best, but easiest to rig up to this cable, without having to splice anything? 

    I really need to get this system running. I feel like an idiot for running a genset to power a light bulb.


    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #46
    MEGA fuses by Littlefuse work well I think. They are used on quality sports cars...
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #47
    Should I go 60 or 80a?
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #48
    I'll guess 50-60 but I'm not the fuse guy.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2016 #49
    To protect the 10 AWG you should use a 30A fuse.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited December 2016 #50
    Ok thanks. The inverter has its own Gfci, so what am I protecting? Just the wire?
    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    #51
    Generally, the GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter--or something like that) is for protecting people.

    If you touch a hot AC wire and ground--Any more than 5 mAmps (0.005 amps) of current will trip the GFI Outlet.

    A very nice safety device--However, sometimes you get leakage current from the AC hot to ground in an appliance (our washer/Drier is now doing that) and it will trip the outlet.

    Generally, I like to put GFI outlets at the point of use. If you use the GFI outlet on the AC inverter, and get a (valid) trip--It kills all of your AC circuits--Which may include lighting, computer, etc. and leave you in the dark.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭
    #52
    BB. said:
    Generally, the GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter--or something like that) is for protecting people.

    If you touch a hot AC wire and ground--Any more than 5 mAmps (0.005 amps) of current will trip the GFI Outlet.

    A very nice safety device--However, sometimes you get leakage current from the AC hot to ground in an appliance (our washer/Drier is now doing that) and it will trip the outlet.

    Generally, I like to put GFI outlets at the point of use. If you use the GFI outlet on the AC inverter, and get a (valid) trip--It kills all of your AC circuits--Which may include lighting, computer, etc. and leave you in the dark.

    -Bill
    I bought a used steel case multi-outlet with a hospital grade plug. It was prone to tripping the GFCI in that room. This must be why.....leakage.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #53

    Chachoriffic said:
    Ok thanks. The inverter has its own Gfci, so what am I protecting? Just the wire?

    The GFCI is a safety device for the AC side, the fuse is to protect the conductors feeding the inverter. Say for example there was a failure of the inverter which caused a dead short on the DC side, the GFCI would do nothing to protect the DC  conductors. Without a fuse the conductors would then become the fuse, the entire capacity of the battery would/could be discharged into them, possibly resulting in a fire. So the rational and intent of the fuse is to prevent this from happening.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Chachoriffic
    Chachoriffic Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    #54
    Excellen. Thanks for the breakdown.


    2x160w Solar Cynergy 12v Mono Panel, Mohoo 20a PWM charge controller, Samlex 300w PSW inverter (SA-300), Honda (EP2500CX) generator, Samlex 12v 15a charger (SEC-1215UL)
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