Mini Split update for Offgrid

inetdog · August 2015

Dave Angelini wrote: »

Hey Rich, How did you end up with the remote unit from Wendy on amazon?

Have you ever hooked up an external wired thermostat to any of your units? Is it just a matter of removing the thermistor on the indoor unit and wiring a standard 24V wired thermostat?
I have the manual for the kit (STK-RCS-7TWSUA ) Sanyo use to sell and it looks like a proprietary connector. Any thoughts?

Since the thermistor is providing an analog signal proportional to temperature, subbing in an on-off switch will not work at all.
The value of the thermistor, in conjunction with a set point that is converted to a particular sensor output, is that it can make the unit behave differently (use low power configuration) when the room temperature is close to the set point and go to full power when the temperature gets more than a few degrees from the set point.
Ideally for off-grid use you will start the unit up by adjusting the set point slowly to stay in the low power range instead of turning the unit on with a 10 degree difference and drawing full power for awhile.

Dave Angelini · August 2015

inetdog wrote: »

Since the thermistor is providing an analog signal proportional to temperature, subbing in an on-off switch will not work at all.
The value of the thermistor, in conjunction with a set point that is converted to a particular sensor output, is that it can make the unit behave differently (use low power configuration) when the room temperature is close to the set point and go to full power when the temperature gets more than a few degrees from the set point.
Ideally for off-grid use you will start the unit up by adjusting the set point slowly to stay in the low power range instead of turning the unit on with a 10 degree difference and drawing full power for awhile.

Right but the Sanyo 4 wire remote "wired remote" showed 4 wires, but after looking into it, it is proprietary and is Panasonic now. Yes I know the value of the thermistor on the indoor unit as I was one of the first to do this strategy and worked with Sanyo beta testing in 2008.

Not all Offgrid is a spartan existence BTW. I have many clients with robust systems who can set any temperature they want, they just can't control the clouds...

XRinger · August 2015

Dave Angelini wrote: »

Hey Rich, How did you end up with the remote unit from Wendy on amazon?

Have you ever hooked up an external wired thermostat to any of your units? Is it just a matter of removing the thermistor on the indoor unit and wiring a standard 24V wired thermostat?
I have the manual for the kit (STK-RCS-7TWSUA ) Sanyo use to sell and it looks like a proprietary connector. Any thoughts?

The vendor sent me a standard form reply. "View the LEDs with your tablet or phone's camera and press the buttons, to see if the LEDs flash" & Etc..
I repeated myself, telling them the remote was working, but could only turn on my Sanyos and not turn them off, or change modes..
Never heard from them again.. (I don't think they understand English very well).

I had an idea for computer controlling my Sanyos in the winter. Just by installing a resistor to act as a heater near the thermistor.
I could turn down the heat of a Sanyo, by applying a little heat to the thermistor.
Depending on inputs to the control computer.. Things like indoor and outdoor temperature or even solar panel voltage level..
Even motion sensors or security system status. If we ran out and left the heat running, it could back off the power use while we were gone..
If the outdoor temperature went up, that would be another flag.. etc..

Dave Angelini · August 2015

They probably do not speak English but that Wendy does not need to. I can speak some Chinese and will learn some also............

That is a nice idea about the resistor but I really want something bullet proof and use the available data from a combox for heating and cooling. Can I PM you Rich?

XRinger · August 2015

Maybe that hot resistor idea could be used also be used for controlling power use when in cooling mode too..
Just set the remote to a really high temp, like 30C Then use the resistor to heat up the sensor to 31C..
After the room temp got down to your controller's setpoint, cut the voltage to the resistor.
You may need to have a thermistor on the resistor for precise control..

It's okay to PM me, or Email if you have my address.
Don't know how much help I can be..

Cheers,
Rich

Dave Angelini · March 2016

Hey Rich !

Do you know if the command set for remotes RCS-4HVPIS4U & RCS- 4HPN4E-T which are compatible with the 1 ton Sanyo splits would run from remote RCS-4MHVPIN4E ?

Any idea what the M means? I know dumb looks are still free. Hope you are well !

XRinger · March 2016

The RCS-4HVPIS4U remotes work with my 24,000 BTU, and I think it's also good for the 18,000 BTU unit of the same vintage (both or in the same install manual).

I don't know what the RCS- 4HPN4E-T was made for.. A few of the functions work on my Sanyos, but they cause strange operation if you press the wrong button.. My living-room Sanyo went nuts at high power and wouldn't turn off.

Dave Angelini · March 2016

These both work on the 1ton RCS-4HVPIS4U & RCS- 4HPN4E-T

The RCS-4MHVPIN4E has all the same buttons as the two above but, will it work.
The reason I ask is there are codes available (software for my project) for RCS-4MHVPIN4E

Glad you made it thru the winter! Bad day to go to Belgium...

Thank-you!!

XRinger · March 2016

The RCS- 4HPN4E-T doesn't have an ION button.. And the button locations are switches around a little..
But, the transmitted IR coding is a lot different than I needed.

These codes that are available, where do I find them?

The winter was really mild this time. Just had a another end of winter snow storm yesterday..
A few inches and now it's almost all melted away. Oh how I do love me some fine Global Warming!

(Or El Nino)..

Just about every day in the EU is a bad day these days. This one was worse than most.
But, there will be more to come. Once the PC generation passes on, things will get better.

Cheers,
Rich

Dave Angelini · March 2016

XRinger said:

The RCS- 4HPN4E-T doesn't have an ION button.. And the button locations are switches around a little..
But, the transmitted IR coding is a lot different than I needed.

These codes that are available, where do I find them?

The winter was really mild this time. Just had a another end of winter snow storm yesterday..
A few inches and now it's almost all melted away. Oh how I do love me some fine Global Warming! (Or El Nino)..

Just about every day in the EU is a bad day these days. This one was worse than most.
But, there will be more to come. Once the PC generation passes on, things will get better.

Cheers,
Rich

Yes you are right about the ion button, but, are you saying you know it does not work or the one they sent does not work?

both worked for me on a 1 ton for heating and cooling.

My question though is really, will the RCS- 4HPN4E-T work. It does have the ion button. I tried searching for a compatibility list but can't find it anymore. Did you see anything? This one here is the key for my project. Drop me an email and I will explain more!
offgridsolar@sti.net

XRinger · March 2016

I have never seen a a compatibility list..
The Amazon remote works fine, but only some of the codes work with my Sanyos. Not really usable. I don't what M/S they are compatible with. I can't see any ION button.. (see pic below).. I got this here>> http://www.amazon.com/General-Replacement-24KS72-KS2472-INVERTER-Conditioner/dp/B00UV3TLRO
You can see my bad review posted there... That remote looks a lot like mine, but its missing one button and labeling is changed..

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/c9/c7bcim9flirf.jpg

XRinger · March 2016

Hey, they have a new one.. http://http//www.amazon.com/HQRP-9203908675035-RCS-4HVPIS4U-Conditioner-Controller/dp/B00VMFQDNA
Says it will work with my RCS-4HVPIS4U compatible systems... I'll bet this one would another waste of money..

techntrek · September 2016

Mitsubishi 33.1 SEER

http://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/products/single-room/product-listing/wall-mount-deluxe

Dave Angelini · September 2016

https://heatinghelp.com/industry-news/fujitsu-introduces-worlds-most-efficient-mini-split-at-33-seer/

Add a wifi board and you can do some amazing things especially in a self consumption or offgrid application when the clouds come in!

XRinger · September 2016

I have a wifi board in my new 18,000BTU Gree Crown..
Got the G-Life app working on a couple of devices. Works very well on the big Galaxy Tab SM-T700.
Basically it's another remote control.. But it does have at least one neat function not seen on the remote..

https://youtu.be/DCJzu45lyHw?t=1m26s  "Power saving".. Don't know what it does yet,
and I don't know if it stays set when you start using the remote-control again..

Maybe there's a G-life forum?

techntrek · September 2016

One difference between the Fujitsu and Mitsubishi is the Mitsu is @ 6000 BTU and the Fuji is @ 9000 BTU, so depending on the area being cooled one may want to go with one brand or the other. I'm also not sure how low the Fuji can go but the Mitsu will heat down to -13 F.

Edit: I just found a spec sheet that says the Fuji can go down to -5 F. I also found this interesting blog entry.

https://tedsenergytips.com/2014/01/29/why-i-can-no-longer-recommend-fujitsu-mini-split-heat-pumps/

Dave Angelini · September 2016

I have been using the the Fuji for clients for a year now but good that Mitsu is getting there. I really need 12,000 BTU's for almost all offgrid homes using a tracked power source. It just runs from dawn till dusk and then the battery use is comes into play. The home never gets warm.
9,000 might work but 6,000 would be a stretch.

Hey Rich! The network is the Key. Was yours an option on the GREE or did you contribute more to the economy

XRinger · September 2016

I didn't want wifi, but I did want the -20 F spec.. So, I paid big bucks to get it.. (Gree Crown)
http://www.comfortup.com/gree-crown18230-145825-18-000-btu-21-seer-wall-mounted-mini-split-air-conditioner-with-heat-pump-220v-25-line-set

I hope this works well at really cold temps, because it really stinks getting up
to start the oil burner at 5AM... I am retired after all.. No need to be awake that early!
We will still be using the old Sanyo in the Den.. Which I hope will work in really cold weather,
if we set the den at 50 or 60F at night..

Can't wait to see how well the Gree defrost works.. I hope it can handle snow storms..
The Farmers Almanac forecast for the NE is for a very bad winter..
Really cold after January.. Norther border state may see -40 F.. I hope not..

westbranch · October 2016

darn, looks like the Fujitsu is 208/230V Have to assume the Mitsu is also...

Ralph Day · October 2016

I run 2 Mits 12,000 mini splits with Xantrex 240 autotransformers. 120vac in 240vac out to the units. No problems with them in several years, except for mice. Stainless steel wool to block holes fixed that.

Ralph

techntrek · October 2016

Dave Angelini said:

I have been using the the Fuji for clients for a year now but good that Mitsu is getting there. I really need 12,000 BTU's for almost all offgrid homes using a tracked power source. ... 9,000 might work but 6,000 would be a stretch.

I agree that for a whole house 6k BTU or 9k isn't enough. Generally you get 2 tons (24k BTU) installed for your average sized house so it has the capacity for the warmest days. I'm excited about the 6k because it is small enough to install room by room (bedrooms, bathrooms) where 9k was overkill before.

techntrek · October 2016

XRinger said:

I didn't want wifi, but I did want the -20 F spec.. ...

I hope this works well at really cold temps, because it really stinks getting up
to start the oil burner at 5AM... ...

So it looks like it will do about 8K BTUs from -4 to -20 F, nice. Not enough to keep a large room comfortable with the heat loss going on, but it won't freeze.

Can't you just set the thermostat on the oil system at 60 F so it will kick on if it gets too cold? My wood stove is my primary heat source and I set my furnace in the 60's for backup (it rarely kicks on).

techntrek · October 2016

westbranch said:

darn, looks like the Fujitsu is 208/230V Have to assume the Mitsu is also...

Are there any 120 volt mini splits anymore?

XRinger · October 2016

techntrek said:

XRinger said:

I didn't want wifi, but I did want the -20 F spec.. ...

I hope this works well at really cold temps, because it really stinks getting up
to start the oil burner at 5AM... ...

So it looks like it will do about 8K BTUs from -4 to -20 F, nice. Not enough to keep a large room comfortable with the heat loss going on, but it won't freeze.

Can't you just set the thermostat on the oil system at 60 F so it will kick on if it gets too cold? My wood stove is my primary heat source and I set my furnace in the 60's for backup (it rarely kicks on).

Yeah, normally we leave the back-up heat ready to start up when it starts getting too cold inside. But, when the forecast is for < 10 deg F, we will set up some backup in advance. 800W Space heaters that will come on when the room temp slides below 68F or we'll start up the oil-burner and open the free-flow valve (for the upstairs loop), that allows warm water to flow in the baseboards using natural convection. That will keep us warm, and save KW hours during the night. The Sanyos will work down to <5 degs F, but they use so much power, it's not worth it to keep them running. When there is a lot of snow building up in the ODU coil, it's time to go to backup heat.. Continuous defrosting is too power wasting..
I'm hoping this Gree can stay under 2KW at very cold temps and also defrost better than the remaining Sanyo, (which has massive power surges when trying to recover from a defrost cycle). When they made these Sanyos, the firmware was a joke. No way to change it either.

XRinger · October 2016

techntrek said:

westbranch said:

darn, looks like the Fujitsu is 208/230V Have to assume the Mitsu is also...

Are there any 120 volt mini splits anymore?

Yes, and some of them really perform.. http://www.comfortup.com/heating-and-cooling/ductless-mini-split-systems/single-zone-systems?dir=asc&order=price&voltage=485

Dave Angelini · October 2016

The whole offgrid stategy is to never depend on one source. We never use large units as they would big problems with clouds on the solar. The 9K and 12K btu are perfect as with a large system we can run at night and cool the whole home as long as the room doors are open. Fire season is not a problem anymore with smoke at night. We would use wood or pellets in a woodstove when it gets really cold and KWH are limited.
I say we as this is what many I know do, many! That is the title of this thread......

There are plenty of 120V units but they drop off efficiency at the lower voltage as they always have back to 2007. When I bought a Sanyo then at 120 vac, the 230vac was 20 SEER and the 120 was 16.

XRinger · October 2016

I think the 9K 120vac systems have the edge on the 9K 230vac systems.. In some product lines anyways..
http://resource.comfortup.com/is/content/Watscocom/article_1391445209119_en_ss?fmt=pdf
Check out the specs on the 120vac 9k systems in the 1st and 3rd columns.
It looks like the 120v 9k units are a little easier on the power bill..

Dave Angelini · October 2016

Power Bill? In 1992....

Yes in this line I agree but if you compare with a 30 SEER Fugitsu or the Mitsu, LG or Panasonic you will see how the amps really go up in the 120vac versions.

Rich you have always been a favorite grid-tie person in this thread. You do not know how many times people have referenced you to me. A few headaches also from trying to explain component level things you have done to a Doctor......

XRinger · October 2016

The amps go up.. But the KWatt hours are what count. BTU per hour uses how many KW hours, those numbers are what I'm looking at..
Stuff like the EER, HSPF and COP are the numbers to look for when buying..

And nope, I don't use grid-tied gear. I own one GTI, because I wanted to experiment with using it off-grid..

IIRC, that thing is toast now..

jonr · October 2016

Does anything outperform a Fujitsu 12RLS3H for efficiency (HSPF 14) and cold temperature (-15F) output?

Mini Split update for Offgrid

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