Mini Split update for Offgrid

BB.

Dave is right... Chlorine is pretty tough on some plastics/materials.

-Bill

LucMan

Forget about the plastics chlorine will ruin the copper and aluminum coils. Never use chlorine  or acid based coil cleaners on a mini split. 
There are coil cleaners available made for exactly that purpose. Nu Calgon makes several varieties in aerosol cans available for one time use. They are good for light buildup. 
The concentrated commercial coil cleaners come in 1 gallon jugs and are much more effective, but need to be used carefully because they can easily damage paint, floors  etc and coils if not rinsed properly. My favorite is NuCalgon Special HD Clean.
Be careful when using any of these products and purchase the "mini split  Bib" system for cleaning evaporators.http://www.nucalgon.com/assets/prodlit/3-125.pdf   

Dave Angelini

I would say you can skip the bib and do preventative cleaning with self rinsing coil cleaner/fan/pan and then a mold preventative.
You will need the bib if you let this go on for too long. 

The time to do all of this during heating season. The indoor unit is dry and much easier when you do not need cooling.

If you only use the split for cooling you will have to be much more attentive as it can end of as bad as a house full of ducting that is full of bad stuff. One of the best things of a split is you can see this

Dave Angelini

BB. said:

Dave is right... Chlorine is pretty tough on some plastics/materials.

-Bill

I may be right but I have done what you suggested many times Bill. On the plastic system fans, condenser coils, and drain pan.

Being in places where you are too far from the best way, like on an Island or at a very remote Offgrid house.

The main point is if you use chlorine, you just have to make damn sure you rinse it out really well with distilled or rainwater in a pressure sprayer..

There were places where we could not get the three C's of life.    Chocolate, Cabernet, and Cheese. Nice to be in America

LucMan

True for light cleaning before the units are a complete mess you can get away with out the bib. Usually though by the time people call me the coils and fans etc. are growing beards. I need the bib to keep from making a mess on the walls and floor,  requiring me to remove the blower to properly clean the wheels and shroud.

Nesto

XRinger said:

I did notice that R32 for the first time. I don't recall hearing about it before now.. But, I'm not a big follower of the HVAC news these days..

That R32 some impressive stuff. Kinda reminds me of R290 in a way.  I've got about 20+ pounds of R410a around here.

And about 75 pounds of propane in the detached garage..

So, I assume the LG Cooling & heat-pump window ACs are going to be using R32. At least they don't have to worry about leaking line-sets..

what is the lg unit that is cooling and heat pump that you are referring to?

XRinger

Not sure. It might be some LG unit we discussed earlier in the thread.. 
Good Night,
Rich

Dave Angelini

Goodnight Rich...
Winter predictions for the Boston area? No sign of it out here, we bought another 2,500 of storage.. water that is

XRinger

Right now, it looks pretty good. https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs&region=us&pkg=asnow
Just hope it stays mild & Snow-free.. Today is rainy, but pretty warm! 66.3°F

Nesto

XRinger said:

Not sure. It might be some LG unit we discussed earlier in the thread.. 
Good Night,
Rich

No unit was discussed in an earlier thread, the topic started this past august because in August LG was coming out with the new dual inverter window ac unit, Dave commented on it that he was anxious to get one. You referenced that it was ac/heat pump and I think you guys may be wrong about this, I think the window units are solely ac. If not, if anyone knows if lg or any company makes a dual inverter window ac/heat pump I can't find a model number

Dave Angelini

I do make mistakes but Rich never does
This is what we were talking about. I do not think I am wrong as I saw one last week.... Cheers! 
https://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW1517IVSM

Nesto

Checked that unit (lg lw-1517ivsm) out yesterday and it's only ac. I was really hoping it had the heat pump for easier install.  

XRinger

Yeah, seems like that product doesn't exist yet. After looking at the LG inverter wall units at Home Depot & the LG site, it seems like the LG inverter units aren't nearly as efficient as inverter M/S in cooling mode.  That said, I suspect, IF they had a heating mode (reversing refrigerant flow) they would do a poor job of heating in cold climates. Might be okay for warmer areas..

What LG might want to try building is a 18,000 BTU inverter mini-split system that uses a Window unit. (instead the standard big wall unit).
The window unit would be plugged into a 220 outlet inside the home. The outdoor unit would be fed power from the Window unit. 
This would allow people to install systems without drilling a large hole in the wall.  No need for a 220 box to be installed outdoors. 
This would be good for people renting homes, or people who were moving and wanted to take their system with them.. 
I can see where these would be good for the Tiny House folks. Since inside space is pretty minimal.  
It could be a non-invasive install..  
  
   

Dave Angelini

I got mixed up on Nesto because the window unit is a dual inverter, it does not heat which is obvious from the specs, and not having the reverse cycle. It is a dual Inverter which was in his question. I confuse easily these days.....

Switching up to 220V, raising the price for higher SEER, and the reverse cycle will come next year, I think....

I do not get your idea Rich, would you not still have to make a refrigerant connection?

jonr

Note that the highest efficiency requires largish heat exchangers and a lot of air movement (often noisy).     Windows units may never be as good.

Also consider this:

http://www.hotspotenergy.com/hotel-air-conditioner/

XRinger

Dave Angelini said:

I got mixed up on Nesto because the window unit is a dual inverter, it does not heat which is obvious from the specs, and not having the reverse cycle. It is a dual Inverter which was in his question. I confuse easily these days.....

Switching up to 220V, raising the price for higher SEER, and the reverse cycle will come next year, I think....

I do not get your idea Rich, would you not still have to make a refrigerant connection?

Yeah, you would still have a full umbilical coming from the outdoor unit.. One advantage is you could place the the outdoor unit under a deck or under a snow shelter, next to the house, or a few yards away from the house.   A large standalone snow roof (gazebo?) that could keep the snow drifts at bay, would be wonderful! 
If R32 could be used in a flexible tubing, (like PEX) that would make it really versatile.. But, I think the pressures might be like R410a.   

I've used a few large window AC units, and I believe the external size of a large window AC is enough to contain a single heat exchanger and fan unit. With the compressor sitting down in the ODU, there should enough space..  Maybe the size limit would be 14,000 18,000 BTUh..   
Jonr, remember that much of the noise from wall-bangers comes from the compressor.. So noise will be considerable less with this kind of split system.  Inverter units don't run high air flow, they cycle up and down as needed. Most have a quiet mode.. 

Well, now that I'm Day Dreaming, LC should make that window until that could connect to an ODU that didn't have any air-type heat exchanger (HX), but had a liquid HX, with a coolant pump and connections for a Loop.. For a Ground Source Heat Pump Loop..    

Dave Angelini

Daydreaming aside, I really don't care how large of a hole I, or a client has to put in the wall as long as there is little skill other than basic handyman for warranty. You should see some of the remote places I have installed a split and told the owner, good luck and no warranty.

I did my last ground source when the air source splits came out. Never again on that one. 

My daydream is that when disclosure happens and my brother-in-law in the Air Force tells me how the aliens do it. 

XRinger

I know what you mean about Disclosure. If it happens, I have been very curious about the 1967 CE1 while aboard the USS Essex. 
I still think about it, 50 years later. Did those UFOs have anything to do with the disappearance of 3 aircrew and 1 helicopter?  

Dave Angelini

That was the year that Apollo 1 burned and you guys were to pick them up near PR? I am looking in Wiki because me cousin was down near there but I never figured what carrier he was on because he did not make it out mentally.

Lot's of cold war stuff on wiki with essex near cuba, before we taught the russians how to meddle with computers. My brother was on midway and they were the last non-nuke. I had 3 nice tiger cruises with him.

Back to splits, ours is still in cooling mode. Our days are 80F, but we need bad weather and rain.

XRinger

That was the Essex. We got the word about the accident while stuck on a reef near PR.. 

80F? Did move to South Texas?      I've been using heat mode for over a month! 

LucMan

Comfortaire has a 18K HP with electric heat, window unit available. Non inverter , 410A.
There's not a big market for high SEER expensive window units so don't expect to see many manufacturer's marketing them.

XRinger

When you are paying 26 cents per KW hour, that seems to be a pretty good motivator for buying high SEER unit.. 

Dave Angelini

XRinger said:

When you are paying 26 cents per KW hour, that seems to be a pretty good motivator for buying high SEER unit.. 

A good motivator also to minimize cycling an offgrid battery also. Pretty hard to beat a quality split. Up there with the top 5 best things for a home for us! I think they are paying close to 40 cents in the top tier down in the valley. 

cory314159

Hey folks, informative thread.

Does anyone have any real world data on the Mitsubishi 6000 btu minisplit, wattage draw with outside and inside temps and approx room size.

Dave Angelini

You should be able to see the spec on that model. For Offgrid the highest seer is the way minimize the total wattage for cooling.

Example, many makes have multiple models and cheapest is not the way to go offgrid especially if you live in a place that needs cooling at night. Good Luck!

WaterWheel

6000 BTU is basically a 1/2 ton sized unit.

I'm running a 18,000 btu setup with 2 heads in a 1600 sf home in GA and it does the job. Got some shade trees but it's still a fairly hot area.

jmd

Jmd

i installed my Fujitsu mini split 7 years ago with good results. It had by far the highest SEER but I needed to add a dedicated auto-former in order to provide the required 240 vac. I’m happy with its performance so far. It does struggle a bit when heating during sub freezing ambient temps but does get the job done. Keeping the evaporator filter screens etc. clean is important. The refrigerant lines run extremely high pressures and should be well protected and absolutely free of leaks.

My off grid system consists of 18- 2volt 1200 ah (50 Kilowatt hour total @ 8 hr. ) tubular plate cells (36v) 4200 watt Sanyo PV on Zomeworks trackers, 2 Outback 80 amp MPPT, 3 Outback 32 v sine wave inverters in sequential 120 vac operation and sometimes run them in 3 phase 120/208 operation as well when needed. I also have an antique 1800 watt and a modern 1500 watt wind turbine both 32 volt and a water cooled low speed Lincoln DC welder which I use as a backup battery charger if needed. Since the welder does not have regulation I use the programmable slave relay in the MPPT to control the welder output.

Dave Angelini

A few folks I know told me about problems they had with snow, and blowing snow. It is really important to keep the area in front of the outdoor unit clear of snow. One can also cover the outdoor with a box to keep it from blowing inside.

It is not a problem to get snow inside as it is designed for outdoor ratings all over the world. The problem is if the sun comes out and you turn the unit on and the fan has frozen to the frame. Most units will not even try and start and will send a warning, but some do!
 Not Good !!!

This can be avoided by using a thin stick to verify the fan can turn through its rotation. Picture below of the best tool to have

Ralph Day

Dave, that looks like a lot of roof drop of snow.  Do you have a steel roof?  do you have the arrestor bars on the roof...they can be angled to cause the snow drop to happen to the side(s) of your condenser units.  In your mountain setup it might be impossible to do without the shovel (wrong mountain guy?)

Dave Angelini

Hey Ralph,
Up 2 stories is steel. The snow does not drop on the splits but just in front. The plywood piece is for insurance to protect the refrigerant lines as the LG sticks out a foot more. Sun is out and they both are heating. 

 I never have had to go on that roof and neither has anyone else.  A  6 in 12 from Canada hey   When we did rough plumbing we installed a 3" vent and a 2 way clean out in an accessible area of the attic just in case.

This storm fooled us as it was suppose to just rain. I think the weather guys are having a bad year. Hope you are doing well !
Vancouver BC area or am I off? Cheers!