Anybody know the life of racing gas? Before it turns to crap?

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,898 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Ethanol blends are horrible for longevity. We all know that. Ethanol free gas is generally considered to turn to crap in a few years. Stabilizers will help if you manage to get the stabilizer into the can before filling it.

What about racing fuel with octanes around 110? I'm not worried about maintaining the octane level. I'm worried about lifespan before turning to crap and gumming up the carburetor jets.

I have a lot of engines around here. Some years they see heavy use. Sometimes they can go many years without use. Running the engine down until it quits does not help at all.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    edited August 2016 #2
    You probably need to be more specific about racing fuel(s)... In our area, it was common to use aviation fuel for racing. Here is an article which talks about Av Fuel (aka Gasoline) being good for >5 years.

    http://generalaviationnews.com/2011/05/15/how-long-can-fuel-be-safely-stored-2/

    Fuel life depends on the additives and other added stuff. If there is alcohol in the fuel-The storage life probably drops a lot.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016 #3
    I use aviation fuel, no ethanol and probably cheaper than racing fuel.. You might have trouble purchasing if you don't have a plane as they frown on filling portable tanks.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #4
    A local airport in San Jose, used to see folks with gas cans at the fuel pump to use in the dirt track oval next to the field (that was 40 years ago and a different life).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • WolfMT
    WolfMT Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭
    #5
    Go to a local self service airport (General Aviation) and you will usually find a self service pump, follow directions, use a metal tank like 50 gallons, so it can be grounded and not alert everyone to thinking you might be a terrorist
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Local airport manager claims aviation gas is good for a year, as is.   Works great in my little mowers, chain saw and weed wackers
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    100LL aviation gas has lead in it.   I expect that you will see plugs foul somewhat.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    jonr said:
    100LL aviation gas has lead in it.   I expect that you will see plugs foul somewhat.
    a $3 plug is cheap compared to a corroded carb that needs repair.   And LL gas doesn't foul plugs much anyway.  But I can't use it in the car as a emergency reserve.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016 #9
    Could check http://www.pure-gas.org to get gas with no ethanol and no lead.

    I think that running the carb dry or preferably draining it helps, at least with crud forming in the bowl (where the filter can no longer help) and corrosion.   And I use stabilizer much more than I did back in the pre-ethanol days.  FWIW, Sta-bil says 2 years and people seem to confirm this.  Maybe re-treating it at that point will extend it again.  Sealing things up to minimize oxygen exposure might help too.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • Johann
    Johann Solar Expert Posts: 245 ✭✭✭
    #10
    jonr said:
    100LL aviation gas has lead in it.   I expect that you will see plugs foul somewhat.
    Lead is good for your engine, it will lubricate engine parts and will make your engine last longer..
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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Other than the possible case of non-hardened valve seats (which are now very rare), I don't think you will find any credible data to support that.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    jonr said:
    Other than the possible case of non-hardened valve seats (which are now very rare), I don't think you will find any credible data to support that.
    Airplanes.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Nope, airplanes use 100LL for detonation risk reasons, not because it provides any additional lubrication to a modern engine design.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Apparently enough airplanes still use engines requiring lead for engine operation, in addition to knock prevention. (non-hardened valve gear, and modern replacements are not "type approved")
    Back ground information regarding the use of leaded aviation gasoline (avgas) in
    piston-engine powered aircraft is available in other documents.2,3
    Briefly, most piston-engine aircraft operations fall into the categories of either GA or AT.
    Aircraft used in GA and AT activities include a diverse set of aircraft types and engine models and are
    used in a wide variety of applications.4   Lead emissions associated with GA and AT
    aircraft stem from the use of one hundred octane low lead (100LL) avgas.The lead is
    added to the fuel in the form of tetraethyl lead (TEL). This lead additive helps boost fuel
    octane, prevent engine knock, and prevent valve seat recession and subsequent loss of
    compression for engines without hardened valves. Today, 100LL is the most commonly
    available type of aviation gasoline in the United States.5

    But enough.  modern low lead fuel generally does not gunk up plugs like the old version. Not all areas have uncontaminated fuel
    that is suitable for small engines, including small backup generators. And not all engines have an easy way to shut off fuel and run a carb dry.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • solorone
    solorone Solar Expert Posts: 257 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Are you after  very high octane or just alcohol free.  We have alcohol free at one or two stations locally, but it is about  $1.00 ++  more that regular.   I run it in my chain saws and small motors that do not get used much.  I have had no real problems with ethanol; gas for my gensets . I do hope to move to propane in the near future, the setup cost is a bit more than I can stand right now. Need a third tank or run a hi pressure line from the other two, both are $$
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,898 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Lots of opinions. I don't need the octane. Just looking for gas that won't turn to crap in a couple years. PRI-G is a great stabilizer but I am looking for the edge.

    One guy has said that he thinks racing gas can last five years. Makes sense. Higher quality gas is usually designed to last longer. Ethanol, by comparison, is designed to separate to the bottom.......tear up small engine parts....gum up carb jets....and turn to water. It is a water based fuel being made from corn....I think.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • cow_rancher
    cow_rancher Solar Expert Posts: 117 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    softdown said:
    tear up small engine parts....gum up carb jets....and turn to water. It is a water based fuel being made from corn....I think.
    Ethanol is hygroscopic, it absorbs water, ethanol is distilled from from a water base mash of corn or other grains.

    Rancher
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