Outback VFX 3648 Fried???

pabloesguapo
pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
edited August 2016 in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
System basics:
--18 Kyocera panels, giving approximately 4500watts.
--24 Rolls 6v lead acid batteries, configured in 3 banks of 8, for a 48v system
--Midnite Classic 150 charge controller
--2 Outback VFX 3648 inverter/chargers, providing 30 amps of AC power each

OK, so here's what happened.

My Midnite Classic 150 malfunctioned, and it looks like my batteries are now charged to 104 volts!!!

A multimeter test shows the batteries at 104 volts. The charge controller says ~40ish volts, as does my Outback Mate 2.

I'm wondering how to proceed from here.

Conventional wisdom, such as that is, says those batteries should have exploded.

I have already (almost) installed a brand new Midnite Classic Lite. I have gotten to the point of initial power up, and the MNGP panel (from the old CC. I haven't boxed it up and sent it in for service yet) read battery voltage in the 40volt range, but the display IS flashing "battery over v", something the old malfunctioning unit never did.

Do I try to drain these batteries somehow, to get them back down to an acceptable level? If so, how?

If I can get them down to 48v, read on a multimeter, will my CC and Mate2 then read them to be 0v, and then not function properly?

Has this battery overcharging damaged my inverters too?

Thoughts?
27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
(2) Outback fx3648 inverters
Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
Mate3s
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Comments

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    I don't think your 48 volt batteries can ever get to 104 volts.  I think you have a measurement error.  Is it possible that you have a wiring error and are measuring a string of 16 batteries (96 volts nominal)?

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #3
    Here's a drawing of my battery configuration. Individual batteries are registering at 11-12v.

    I used two different multimeters.
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
    24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
    Mate3s
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    pabloesguapo said:
    Here's a drawing of my battery configuration. Individual batteries are registering at 11-12v.

    I used two different multimeters.
    Did you measure individual batteries in each of the three strings?  

    Also, your wiring diagram is not optimal, it will unbalance your three strings.  Closer to optimal would be to move either the pos or neg combined cable to the other corner.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #5

    Pablo..,

    Agree with vtmaps,  it seems impossible that any 48 V string of GOOD batteries could ever get up to 100 V,  or more.

    This IS an off-grid system,  correct?

    When you are measuring 104 V string voltage,  and 11 - 12 V individual 6 V battery voltages,  are all of the DC breakers,  connected to the batteries in the OFF position?

    Also agree with vt,  that if one/some of your jumpers between battery strings were open,  or making poor connections,  you might see two strings in series,  BUT,  the individual battery voltages should still be in the 6 - 7ish volts.

    Does this system date to around 2012?
    What is the electrolyte level in the batteries?

    Try carefully disconnecting the jumpers between each parallel string,  and perhaps also disconnect the cables connecting the inverters and CC to the batteries,  so that each string is connected to nothing else...   Wait for some number of minutes,  what is the string voltage of individual battery strings?   And individual batteries?

    Thanks for answers,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    As has been pointed out, I'm pretty sure that your battery banks can not get charged above ~60-64 volts. Put your meter on batteries individually.....they will show somewhere between 5 - 7.5 volts...either low or high reading being extreme.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Your first post called them 6 volt batteries. "24 Rolls 6v lead acid batteries, configured in 3 banks of 8, for a 48v system"

    pabloesguapo said:
    Here's a drawing of my battery configuration. Individual batteries are registering at 11-12v.

    I used two different multimeters.


    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #8
    If digital meter, replace the batteries.

    Get a second meter and verify the voltages.

    Have seen very strange voltage readings from meters with weak batteries and bad meters.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Bill, he says he has 2 meters.
     I do remember you and I troubleshooting a system where the user had somehow wired the battery strings in series and had around 100vdc on the inverters. Probably wont hurt them but not a good situation long term.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    I'll be you are looking at the PV array voltage.  4500W of PV would take a long time to overcharge a 48V bank to 100+ V.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Desert Rat
    Desert Rat Solar Expert Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    #11
    I recently had a customer here connect eight 12V batteries in series to an Outback 3648. He was thinking that the batteries were 6V. It knocked out the inverter; we had to send it to Outback for repair.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #12
    Sorry, I missed the two meters.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #13
    Ended up being two bad meters. I tried with a third meter, and everything checked out fine.

    Thanks vtmaps, for the tip on battery wiring. I will move one cable to another corner.
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
    24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
    Mate3s
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #14

    Great news,  Pablo.   Meters are inexpensive,   Solar hardware,  not so much!

    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #15
    now I have to figure out why my generator just will not run. But that's a different thread.
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
    24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
    Mate3s
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    BB. said:
    Sorry, I missed the two meters.

    -Bill
    Don't be sorry! You were right in the end!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    I sure miss the days when stuff both worked and lasted.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    What are the odds of two meters both doubling the voltage reading?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Desert Rat
    Desert Rat Solar Expert Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    #19
    softdown said:
    What are the odds of two meters both doubling the voltage reading?
    Pretty good, if they are Harbor Freight meters!
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