schneider context XW6848, 5548, 4048 inverter opinions?
I want to buy the new context Xw line inverter, however I am just looking on some opinions of this unit before I go ahead with the purchase? Anything really bad about these units?
XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
Comments
Welcome to this Forum.
I have no experience with Schneider Inverter/Chargers.
Several things that look concerning to me in the specs:
There appears to be NO Idle Power consumption stated for either the XW or XW+ inverters, EXCEPT for Search Mode -- this concerning because, the Context SW 24 V inverter chargers seem to have alarmingly Idle consumption, wonder if Schneider is ducking a high idle consumption, by not stating it.
For the XW+ inverter specs that I've looked at, the Inverter input voltage range is stated as 60 VDC for the 48V units. This may be a spec error, as this is essentially un-useable with Flooded, AGM, Edison, and probably other battery chemistries. The specs for the previous model -- the XW -- states battery input voltage range to 64 V. 64 V is still a bit low for Flooded batteries that are cold, or being EQed, IMO.
Then, there is the requirement for extra doo-dads for adjusting parameters, and updating the often-stale FirmWare, as supplied by Schneider. The supply chain from China, where most of the Schneider electronic hardware is made. These units seem to be built in large quantities, and factory/distribution stock appears not to be rotated, or updated.
Some here, have been disappointed with some of the ways this family of inverters seem to interact with the Grid -- I do not remember the exact details, but Schneider seems to be very slow in even trying to correct some of the most annoying BUGs, but whatta I know.
It is good that you are asking questions before buying additional hardware, etc. Hope that you will try, very hard to define your exact needs, and expectations for your system.
Recall that you are Grid-connected, but you seem to desire Backup power, but perhaps with NO charging from the Grid. Believe that you currently have a Classic 150, perhaps one 12 V AGM battery, and two unusual 12 V inverters, but that may not be correct.
FWIW, Good Luck, Vic
Unable to read the image that you posted ... perhaps if it were saved and then viewed ... the Forum software has taken a giant step backward in the past 4 - 6 weeks, and images is one of the major new flaws, IMO
Believe that this was the link to the XW+ specs that I had referred to:
http://solar.schneider-electric.com/...solar-inverter
In the spec section of the above link, under Inverter Output, the Input voltage range is speced as 42 - 60 V. That is all that I was going from ...
OK on the XW Idle Power specs being in the Manual, good, but Specs should be Specs, again, IMO
More Later, Vic
I can see the image, it is just not readable, but thanks for posting it.
The Context XW inverters have been very stout off-grid units. In the past on this Forum, there were some number of users who were Grid-Connected, in various forms, that felt that the XWs had a number of maddening bugs, that seemed to not being dealt with by Schneider.
All of the ins and outs of designing and programming the different modes of inverters that are interacting with the grid is very complex. And for the user, trying to understand all of the trade-offs in programming these grid connected inverters is also complex.
All of the above is only from reading posts, primarily on this Forum. That is all that I know.
It could be possible that Schneider has finally figured out many of these issues.
You might also want to consider the Outback Inverters, which have a good reputation. Some may say that this basic design from Outback might be a bit dated, but they seem to be reliable.
Hope that others with the Context XW and XW+, that are grid Interactive in some manner will chime in.
FWIW, Good Luck, Vic
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
BUT, in Post #5, there is a Link. In that Link to the XW+ inverters for 48 Nominal battery voltages, about one third of the way down the page, there are " Technical Data ".
Here, again is that Link:
http://solar.schneider-electric.com/...olar-inverter/
In those Technical specs, there are two references to Battery Voltage ranges.
The first of these specs for battery voltage range is under, " Inverter AC Output "
This spec is for a voltage range of 42 - 60 Volts, In this spec, it does NOT say 64 volts. It does NOT say 67 Volts. It does, however say 60 Volts. This was my reference.
Even though it was NOT stated in the above specifications, it might be possible that Schneider is saying that they are unwilling to specify all of the other Inverter AC output specs, when the battery voltage rises above 60 Volts. If this was the case, then it is poorly stated, and am not sure that this, still, is very good performance for the new XW+ line of 48 volt inverters.
Also in the Technical Specs, there is a named area -- Charger DC Output,
Under this group of specifications, it is noted that the charger can output UP TO 64 Volts. It does, however NOT say anything about any voltage that is at all above 64 Volts.
So, exclusively, and ONLY from these specs for the XW+ 48 V family of inverters, on the Schneider Electric Site today, these are the specifications that Schneider is willing to back, at this time.
There is ONLY one footnote, " Specifications subject to change without notice "
This is all that I was referring to. Just trying to be clear, cannot make up this stuff.
Simply TRYING to be clear. FWIW, Vic
That MAY be the reason for the 60 volt "limit". Years ago, we had a person or two with getting high battery bus voltage faults that shut down systems with >72 VDC bus voltage errors.
There are so many layered regulatory and physical requirements for safety and working voltages--Frequently what is told to the end user through manuals and spec. sheets are fairly divorced from real hardware/operational/potential system capabilities limitations.
-Bill
OK, Thanks Bill, had not considered that ...
However, thinking of an entire 48 Volt PV-based system, most CCs would be hard-pressed to fully charge a Flooded battery from a PV input voltage that was at or below 60 Volts. And the Schneider SCC CC (and most other MPPT CCs) probably needs more than 60 V input to do much charging at all.
FWIW. Thanks, Vic
He tried very hard to ignore me and say the system he was inspecting for UL approval was running on a 54 vdc power supply, so he did not care.
-Bill
Almost all of the Hybrid Inverter/Chargers switch to charging batteries when Qualified AC is detected on their AC input terminals. The external AC input is switched to the inverter's output terminals by an internal transfer switch. So the inverter will do NO cleaning of the input power. The genset voltage, frequency and waveform all appear on the inverter output, for better and for worse.
It is not uncommon for the inverter's charger to distort the genset's waveform to some extent, making the AC power delivered to the loads to be less perfect than one would see from the genset. This can be especially true for the smaller, less expensive generators.
In addition, the genset needs to power both the downstream AC loads, and the inverter's charger, so these combined loads need to be considered. The XW series of inverters allow a way to divide the power to the AC loads and the battery charger.
FWIW, Vic
Then this has changed for the XW+, I believe.
If you have the time to read the manual, there is probably a lot of data and Theory Of Operation there. I do not have the Bandwidth or time to download or read/study the manual.
Generally, these Inverter/Chargers have only one transformer and one set of drivers, and these expensive/heavy devices are only charging batteries, OR inverting, but not both.
Vic
I agree with Vic... In general, the typical inverter-charger uses that exact same hardware to both "invert" and charge the battery bank--Just the direction of power flow is reversed. So, it would seem to be unlikely for a lower cost/general purpose inverter-charger to have separate AC inverter and DC battery charger components to allow the AC input and AC output section to be completely isolated (i.e., you can have "bad" AC input frequency/wave forms, and "good" AC output frequency and wave forms.
Not saying it cannot or is not done--Just does not seem likely.
-Bill
your mileage may vary
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
-Bill
If you have an AC to DC Battery charger -> battery bank -> AC inverter, then your output is completely isolated from AC power variations.
In general, most modern electronic devices are pretty frequency independent. Actual peak sine-wave voltage and wave form can cause problems with power supplies.
Motor based systems may behave badly with frequency variations. Had a 50 Hz IBM Selectric Typewriter from Europe running on 60 Hz US power (behind a transformer)... Typewriter would occasionally have functional error because of the 20% higher line frequency.
Another would be clocks/timers that use AC line frequency for timing.
-Bill
New2, it appears that in Gen Support mode, with the genset voltage and frequency Qualified, that the Inverter output is synced to the genset. So the AC on the inverter output terminals is the same frequency as the genset.
If the genset frequency is unstable, the output frequency would also be unstable, within LIMITS;
1. The genset frequency must remain within the range of frequencies that the inverter has been told (by some settings, I believe).
2.. The genset voltage must remain within the range that it has been told that is OK (also by user settings).
3. It is my GUESS that there is a limit on the rate of change in genset frequency that the inverter can follow, believe that above some max rate of change, the generator input would be dropped.
I have never run Generator (or Grid) Support, and have never used any of the XW inverter/chargers.
Have run the SW+ units, which were the Xantrex models that are one generation older than the XWs. ... SO whatta I know?
FWIW, Thanks, Vic