schneider context XW6848, 5548, 4048 inverter opinions?

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  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    I have broken the piggy bank and ordered deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries 400AH and now I am looking into battery cable sizing. As per the manual it says 4/0 but that is good for over 400 amps, but the main breaker is 250A? Must I use 400A cable?
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,509 admin
    How much current (continuous and surge) do you plan on drawing?

    How long will the cable run(s) be (one way distance is fine).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    Well surge current will be at least 45 [email protected] for the AC unit, which is almost the whole capacity of the unit rating 12,000 watt surge. Cable length will be about 6-7 feet approx.
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    new2PV wrote: »
    Well surge current will be at least 45 [email protected] for the AC unit, which is almost the whole capacity of the unit rating 12,000 watt surge. Cable length will be about 6-7 feet approx.
    That's about 240 amps at 52VDC. 6 - 7' of cable (is that one way or both + & - wires added together) is a LONG inverter cable, and you size it for voltage sag at 250A, since that's where the power comes from.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,509 admin
    Using a voltage drop calculator, assuming 250 Amp surge, 7 feet one way cable run, 2/0 and 4/0 cable:

    http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

    2/0 cable:
    Voltage drop: 0.27
    Voltage drop percentage: 0.64%
    Voltage at the end: 41.73

    4/0 cable:
    Voltage drop: 0.17
    Voltage drop percentage: 0.40%
    Voltage at the end: 41.83

    You probably would want a maximum of ~2 volts drop for 48 volt AC input inverter--So the voltage drop of either cable size is OK.

    You can use the NEC table for wiring sizing:

    https://lugsdirect.com/WireCurrentAmpacitiesNEC-Table-301-16.htm

    And 2/0 for continuous DC current or 4/0 if you plan on supporting higher power ratings would be fine.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    Mike that is one way distance, I will see if I can get the cable lengths down somehow. I am surprised that its very little difference in drop between 2/0 and 4/0, I bet on a longer distance it would be more dramatic.
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • SkiDoo55SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    What's the cycle time on the AC unit and duration of start time. I would bite the bullet and get 4/0 cable. If you are getting the 6048 and doing almost 12 KW surge recommendation is for 4/0 for even 5 ft length. I use http://www.electrician2.com/calculators for working out requirements for my projects. Undersized wire and terminations cause heat and failures.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    I think your right, I spent so much on the system, lets do it right. I don;t know the surge time my clamp on showed 46 amps for long enough for my eyes to see it, on a hot day the A/c could cycle quite often. The inverter is the 6848 model.
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • SkiDoo55SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    Also, working the other way if you used 2/0 wire then you should provide breaker/fuse to protect the wire from burning up which with 12KW surge may or may not hold thru the surge cycle. Make sure your battery jumpers are the same size or equal so they don't act like fused links!
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    Next possible situation, if I have a problem with surge watts could I stack another inverter of a different size like a 5548 WX for example? Or is this a bad idea?
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,509 admin
    You need to check the Inverter models and see what you can mix and match... Many times, you can only stack identical models.

    And surging--What is it you want to run? Many times, it is the battery bank and DC wiring that limits the useful surge current from an inverter...

    If you can use a different "appliance" or use various soft start solutions, you might be able to use a much smaller AC inverter and battery bank (surge rating wise). Many times, the DC or High Efficiency/Soft Start Well pumps are more efficient than their plain Jane AC versions that are designed to connect to the grid.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My experience with my XW6048, is that it is a beast and will be able to start most anything. It was running a huge multi horsepower floor sander with no trouble except the batteries & 3KW pv could not keep up with the sander.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    Well not sure I made a good move purchasing this unit, I was not aware of the 150-200 w continuous tare from grid, no where in the specs do they mention such a crazy tare, not too happy about it.
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • new2PVnew2PV Solar Expert Posts: 305 ✭✭
    The tare seems to be the most during grid support mode, when load shaving is active, I think its about 40-60 watts
    XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always have thought the way the moderator here Bill backed up his grid solar with a generator was the most intelligent way to do this.
    Along the same lines I have always thought that using a battery system with a grid connection in the modern world was at the other end of smart unless there was some compelling reason.

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, the inverter syncs and tracks the genset,  If the genset is reasonable stable, all will be fine.  I have a single cylinder 6hp diesel 650 RPM genset, with a simple "ST" alternator head. The AC output does wobble in both voltage and amplitude, but the inverter is still able to track it, even with the wild power stroke.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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