My battery soc

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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #212
    Re: My battery soc

    10-26-2014, 9:15am
    Trimetric at 60% charged, battery 47.5 under load, load 25.2 amps, temp. 78.8 degrees. used 322 amps from battery, low cell sg 1.168
    Battery rebound voltage 48.5. Am I reading it wrong that at this point my battery has only 50% capasity from what it should have?
    Thanks
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #213
    Re: My battery soc

    Well the only thing I have accomplished so far is to raise the battery temp. when I was using it normal 74 degrees was a hot temp. This charging and discharging with minamal rest is building the heat. With a three hour absorb today the battery is at 94.2 degrees f with me just measuring the termanal of one of the middle batteries. It won't take anouther day of discharging and re charging. It loses temp on the discharge but not enough and it is accumulating more then it is losing. My sgs across the board seem to be suffering at the 60 volt range although the monthly eq will probly raise them. The sg at these temps are about 1.270 high and a bit over 1.260 low. I think the rolls battery site has a heat comp that would add from .003 to .006 sg at these temps.

    Coot or blackcherry
    Do you have any advice at this point?

    Thanks
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #214
    Re: My battery soc

    Guy, I don't know what to tell you. Give it a day or two of rest and start back when you feel comfortable with the temperatures. I don't know what a Forklift battery does that is used for 8 hours to 80% and is charged back over night and is cycled 5 days a week. Not that your trying to duplicate that. With the SG's falling you either need to increase the time or voltage, or discharge it less, as you said the next EQ will bring them up.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #215
    Re: My battery soc

    Blackcherry
    Not trying to put you on the spot, I don't know either. I used to drive a fork truck. We had a big battery changing station so they always had spares and could take their time. I know that some one seen something that they thought I was hurting my battery and thought this might help and It might. My problim (I know it is not your problim) is, I don't know when it is good or bad. It aint your problim and I don't know if it is even a problim. I do respect your opinion and you seem to be a good will guy that has my best interest at heart so I like you advice. I however don't want you to feel pressured.

    I do sort of want to pressure "coot" a tiny bit cause he suggested the 60 volts and the charge recharge and I am recording everything to the best I know how and I am hoping to get some affermation I am on the right track or need another change. I know he doesn't have to but he saw something I can't see to make the suggestions he made.

    My veiw is the battery isn't up to par on capasity, does have one low cell that makes a differance and the rest are in spec sg wise although low on capasity too. Think the 61.2 voltage got the sg higher but may have been hard on the battery. the 60 volts is not raising the sg as high but might be better for the battery. At 60 volts I am going (except today) three hours past the toping out of sg with no change. It may take ten more cycles to make a differance unless there now, with the data, doesn't seem to be anything wrong.

    I guess I am looking for a baby sitter that throws out a little good and slaps my hand once in a while cause I don't have a clue. If it is working I want to keep doing it, If it isn't I guess it isn't.

    If I ask for to much I am sorry in advance.
    I knew I could pressure you for a reponce (bad, but desparate) and I thank you for the responce and believe it or not feel a little better for you giving it to me.

    Thanks
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #216
    Re: My battery soc

    I hear you, but I don't know what is going on and don't know what to tell you. Generally once you get the SG's up to 100%, your going to be able to cycle the battery and and charge it back. If for some reason the plates did not completely form because of the way it was charged and discharged then the only way I know is to cycle it, that is what you have been doing. Another EQ is not going to do anything more than it did the time before. It will raise the SG level , but will not help the plates.

    I don't think you have to cycle it to 80% and never said you had to. Try 50% at night and recharge on solar during the day, if the temperatures go up, I guess you'll have to go back on grid till they go down.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #217
    Re: My battery soc

    Blackcherry

    When I think it is cool enough to survive. will do it again. I doubt a couple hours rest will help but I left the garage door open and guess if I am wrong I can always stop the charge tommorrow and let it rest. I am going to keep going and guess I will leave it at 60 volts for a few more times and see what happens.
    Thank you very much
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #218
    Re: My battery soc
    gww1 wrote: »
    Blackcherry

    When I think it is cool enough to survive. will do it again. I doubt a couple hours rest will help but I left the garage door open and guess if I am wrong I can always stop the charge tommorrow and let it rest. I am going to keep going and guess I will leave it at 60 volts for a few more times and see what happens.
    Thank you very much
    gww
    It's not going to hurt anything to do it that way. I am encouraged to see the low cell changing and closing the distance to the higher cell. If you continue seeing it get better your on the right track.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #219
    Re: My battery soc

    Blackcerry
    On a different subject.
    I went to walmart, a place I hate to go to, and tried to buy an inside/outside thermomitor and the only thing they sell is the wireless ones now. I guess I will get mom,s last one she used in a green house.
    Thanks
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #220
    Re: My battery soc

    I think I bought a dozen of these, not sure I bought them here.

    http://www.foodlve.com/foodshare/39231
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #221
    Re: My battery soc

    blackcherry
    Even if you didn't, its good enough for me. I probly won't need a dozen but will definatly get a few.
    Thanks
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #222
    Re: My battery soc

    Blackcherry
    How did you handle this? The site is estimating my shipping cost at $100, for these temp gages.
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #223
    Re: My battery soc
    gww1 wrote: »
    Blackcherry
    How did you handle this? The site is estimating my shipping cost at $100, for these temp gages.
    gww
    Forget that site. That was the ones I bought, I'll try to see where I bought them.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #224
    Re: My battery soc

    Don't worry about it, I talked to the on line chat and they are going to send me three through my email. It is going to cost $20 in shipping but I would have spent that much driving around to stores. Still pretty high but done now.
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #225
    Re: My battery soc

    Blackcherry

    I really like what you made and had posted on two forums questions on how people checked their battery temp in a way they trusted.

    Thanks
    gww
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #226
    Re: My battery soc

    If you have the time, you can have them shipped from China via eBay for about $3.50 each, search ' Thermometer DS-1 ' I just made it a link so you can just click the script.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #227
    Re: My battery soc

    Sorry I replied a bit slow, I had seen the post and hit reply, but realized I had my dehydrator still running (440 watt load when heating) so I ran to turn it off and take out the apples and came back to finish... sorry.

    FWIT - Blackcherry04, I take it the '2 probes' is actually a bad translation? they measure inside and out side, no probe inside and one for outside?
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #228
    Re: My battery soc

    whitt
    The ones I use now and have seen at moms, just have one lead that you put outside and the monitor itself does the inside. I got one that would work but the monitor is erratic and doesn't allways show.
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #229
    Re: My battery soc

    How winter food prep going?
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #230
    Re: My battery soc

    Whit
    The ones I am trying for are also china and as of yet I have seen no email so going to your link next.
    thanks
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #231
    Re: My battery soc

    Good Find on them Photo, They have one probe on a 8 - 10 wire and the other is built in the case, so yes, a bad translation.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #232
    Re: My battery soc

    My link is just to a search string on eBay, I've never not gotten something ordered from China through eBay, I had one shipment that took over 2 months, I sent an Email and they send another out, then the first arrived a week or so later. Usually takes 10 days to 3 weeks.

    I've dehydrated 60 lbs of apples or so. I have enough wheat for the Winter and until Summer, but them finding GMO wheat in the wrong places encouraged me to buy another years worth, but LDS doesn't have any bags now so I'm waiting, should be in shortly.

    The posts all say 2 probes, but I figure one is internal, not a probe in my nomenclature, hence the translation remark.

    Thanks BC04
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #233
    Re: My battery soc

    My wife is in korea right now so I am batching it. She made a bunch of speggatte sause. she must have given a bunch to the kids cause I went to make my 3rd or 4th batch but when I opened the jars it was just canned tomatoes, so I made chilli. I have pretty well went through our winter suplies now that I have to do the cooking. Chili speggette and fried eggs are easyest to make.

    My garden is done. Guess I need to butcher some chickens and start eating meat.

    We freeze more then dehydrate although I have a garden full of peppers that are going to go to waste. I ment to dehydrate them but havebt got to it.

    I should have bought the monitors from ebay but after going through the trouble of having the guy send an email I went ahead and payed for them. I felt obligated at that point. Once I knew which one to order I should have searched like normal for a better deal. sometimes you just want to get done and move on. monitering battery temp has not worked very well since acid ate the thurmal cord on the sears clamp meter and I never trusted it anyway.
    Cheers
    gww
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #234
    Re: My battery soc

    Garden never seems done, I want to put some spinach under glass yet, and have some strawberry jumpers to prep soil for, I have beets for greens and chives to dry, even have a couple dozen cherry toms to harvest yet, and some seed purple hulls to collect, and I don't really have a garden yet...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #235
    Re: My battery soc

    I just let the battery do its normal thing last night.
    10-27-2014, 7:00am

    The trimetric at 80%, 49.2 volts under load, 18.8 amp load, the temp is 79 degrees, took 157 amps from battery,
    cell 8 at 1.238
    cell 14 at 1.225

    Now I guess I will try to find the charts on this thread and write them down cause they keep moving and it is hard to find. Should have already did that.
    Cheers
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #236
    Re: My battery soc

    Just had a long conversation with the battery maker. He was pretty sure I needed to raise my voltage back to the 61.2 or maby even to the 61.4. I can't do the 61.4 with the outback inverter cause I would have to go to 61.6 as it only adjust by .4 at a time. He also said it would be better to watch the low cell voltage under load and when it got to 1.80 volts, that was 80% discharge. He said he wouldn't stress the low cell too much and maby do a bit shallower discharges. We went through the differances in solar charging and the way they do it. He believes my battery plates are not formed yet and will take more time. His veiw on the low cell was it may get better but no matter what we don't want it worse. I ask about the high voltages and low sg and he was sure this was just not enough cycles on the battery yet. He is a very loyal customer of fransis freeze hydrometers and temp items. he said they check thousands of batteries weekly and that there isn't a battery pack out there that doesn't have one cell that laggs behind the others. He still likes the high eq voltage also. He did mention that at the low absorb amps going into the battery that the only answer was more time. They force 30 amps for a set period.

    As my sgs are not raising, I am going back to the 61.2 absorb from the sixty volts. They are firm believers of using the low cell voltage as the indicator during charging and discharging, of when you have met your marks. The sg takes a bit to stablize and should still be read to asses battery health but on the fly use the low cell voltages.

    I am going to raise voltage and discharge to my normal discharge rate and then watch charging very closely to see that I am getting charged and look for inprovements or worsining. He said with these deep cell batteries that the acid is heavier then the water and takes a lot of boiling to get it mixed. He also thought every once in a while heat was probly helpful for breaking up sulphate.

    I ask about the capasity and his belief is the batteries have not been use long enough yet to have reached their max.

    Time will tell
    gww
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #237
    Re: My battery soc

    Well, I agree with the Manufacturer on this one. I had absolutely no experience with taller type Industrial batteries until this year, but mine acted exactly the same as yours. It was like the SG's never matched the voltage and the EQ's would get to 1.265, but I didn't have the capacity should of had. It all came down to partial plate activity. The unformed part of the plate was there, but it was doing nothing. I first noticed the voltage started sagging less and holding higher under the same load and the required ending amps went from 11 to 30 to obtain the same SG level. All it took was a couple months of deeper cycles and full re-charges. Having one cell lower than the others is a fact of life, I have one that is .05 -.10 points lower on the sg level, I have tried to bring it up individually but it won't stay up with the same charging as the others. I just ignore it.
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #238
    Re: My battery soc

    Blackcherry
    This time it was my turn to be busy all day. Went to put a bush hog blade on at dads and when testing broke the wheel welding and had to bend it back and weld it. tomorrow if the guy finally shows up there is a furnace to put in. so I might get sidetracked for a short time. I still intend to watch things closely as they go along. I may do some more controlled discharges and charges and check the volts sg while they go on and try to collect some more knowlage and look for changes. I also agree with the battery maker, at least till I can check. He did ask many of the questions ask here. water fill, usage and stuff.

    I had earlyer decided that I would live with the low cell expesially since it went up and down in unison with the high cells. I just got a little scared and gained a little hope that I might make it better.
    Thanks
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #239
    Re: My battery soc

    I have been busy for two days and will probly be busy two more. I did get a chance to check the sg at about three hours of absorb. It was 1.290 for the high cell and 1.279 for the low. This was at 61.2 volts absorb. It got a total of 4 hour absorb but I wasn't here to check. The battery was only taken down to 75% per trimetric but about 50% per low cell sg of 1.220. It is not getting hot like it did when charged from a lower discharge. It was about 83 degrees. This is an improvement from when I absorbed at 60 volts but no improvement over all. It is basically tracking exactly as it has been since I started documenting. At some point I may even try a bit higher absorb which was suggested buy the battery maker who said "try it for a bit and see or try eq twice a month for awhile".
    Thanks
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #240
    Re: My battery soc

    Short update.

    I raised my voltage last night to 61.4 from 61.2 volts and today at one hour absorb the sg in my low cell is 1.286, the highest ever. The battery was 71 degrees and had only had a shallow discharge last night. The trimetric said 80% when I first saw it this morning and if I remember correctly I think it said 170 amps had been taken from the battery.

    I guess before I get too excited I need to recalabrate my hydromerter just in case. If it is correct then two things,

    1. It is amazing that .2 volts would make that much differance.

    2. It is more then a .2 differance over all cause I eq at 63.2 and have not got that sg.

    Thanks
    gww
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #241
    Re: My battery soc

    Forget my last post, it was just a calibration issue and my sgs are as normal. 1.280 for low cell. battery is cutting back to a little over 9 anps at one hour. I believe I am going to shorten my absorb to 3 hours as it is getting its high sg at one hour. I would cut it back a bit shorter but I have been doing shallow discharges and at one hour the trimetric still shows the battery being short of amps by a very small amount.
    gww
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