Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #272
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    "We have inherited a 111 year old home recently that we are gutting. No solar, wind or micro hydro prospects there. Needs everything including insulation, windows/doors and heating system. We intend to let it for several years till the market turns....if it turns.....then sell."

    ouch, welcome to my world. i have yet to even come anywhere close to finishing my money pit.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #273
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Around here and especially over in Lexington, renovating an older home is risky, because of the value of the land..
    If the location is good, the buyer might be a contractor who just wants the land.
    He will rip down that house and build a million buck house on it.

    I would hate to have spent a lot of money on a home that was going to be put in dumpsters, a week after I sold it. :(
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #274
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    XRinger wrote: »
    Around here and especially over in Lexington, renovating an older home is risky, because of the value of the land..
    If the location is good, the buyer might be a contractor who just wants the land.
    He will rip down that house and build a million buck house on it.

    I would hate to have spent a lot of money on a home that was going to be put in dumpsters, a week after I sold it. :(

    It is the same around Vancouver, BC.

    In fact I fully expect that is what will happen with the house I've just spent 2 years renovating. As long as they pay the money, I don't care. In fact if they pay me enough I'll run the dozer. ;)
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #275
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    It is the same around Vancouver, BC.

    In fact I fully expect that is what will happen with the house I've just spent 2 years renovating. As long as they pay the money, I don't care. In fact if they pay me enough I'll run the dozer. ;)


    That just seems like such a waste of resources.. Since I'm 66 (next month), I'm really reluctant to put any expensive improvements into this house.
    I was looking at the lifespan of top-of-the-line replacement windows for my Den.. Somehow thinking that I'm going to live here another 30 years!! LOL!
    (We moved in back in 1973)..

    I don't mind spending money on Mini-splits.. They aren't overly costly and provide a lot of comfort and savings.. :)
    After this winter, we'll likely break-even on the total cost of the DIY installs.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #276
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    60 minutes had a story on Sunday about some city (forget which) that is tearing down thousands of vacant homes - just to prop up the remaining market value. Not recycling the remaining materials, just puting it all in the landfill. Granted they said vandals were stripping out most valuable material beforehand (copper), but even the wood could be reused. That is a waste!
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,601 admin
    #277
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I am not even sure the wood can even be reused--Years ago, a few people in our area used to save structural stuff (2x4's, etc.).

    A 1/2 mile away from my parent's old place, guy roughed in a home using beautiful 30 year old first growth wood. Inspectors made him start over because none of it was stamped with the modern factory marks.

    The old stuff had larger dimensions, was clear of knots, tight grain, etc... Still was not good enough.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #278
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    That's a crying shame.. They should have protected those houses from the copper=drugs idiots.

    Another shame is, our government 'owns' (that's us taxpayers) thousands of repo houses they can't sell, but refuses to rent them.
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #279
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    BB. wrote: »
    I am not even sure the wood can even be reused--Years ago, a few people in our area used to save structural stuff (2x4's, etc.).

    A 1/2 mile away from my parent's old place, guy roughed in a home using beautiful 30 year old first growth wood. Inspectors made him start over because none of it was stamped with the modern factory marks.

    The old stuff had larger dimensions, was clear of knots, tight grain, etc... Still was not good enough.

    -Bill

    They (the little dictators ) have ruled that also against us in our area. It's main reason up here in timber land is TAXES !! the stamp means taxes have been paid to the crown / coffers . I milled my timber (woodmiser) and they had the gall to say , I couldn't use that as building material . Frigg them , best clear fir you can get in North America , and they say it's no good.. Man I wish these dictators could hold a hammer , work a screwdriver and get off my LAND. 2X4 size is it's cut before dimensional finishing is done. I can mill both sizes and plane to size if i need pretty wood under my gyprock / Sheetrock.

    I saw a huge house development down in Fresno area totally empty and being squatted in when I was down in 2010 visiting a business owner buddy, he said it was plowed into the ground this year because of bank responsibility and insurance risks.This was a huge subdivision by itself for the workers in the area, I was told but in 2008/9 the power and all money dried up and it was left vacant.. Sad , that's folks retirement investment through the banks and worthless high risk investments they sold to other countries ...

    Im also looking very seriously at these Sanyo mini split AC/heat pump units.. some links here are still saying out of stock , so Ebay is still the best place?
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #280
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    A while back a builder in PHX had a couple houses partially (60%) finished and went bankrupt, the bank let the fire department burn them down! Unbelievable.

    What do these dictators do if you build a log home?
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #281
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Sir , As far as I know the Logs must be purchased from a "Log " supplier that has got a stamp number to sell them .We have 4 different companys building them here , after there built , they MARK/take apart & ship them. They wouldn't be logs off my land. Up here in Timber land , If you have a log over 5' or 1.8M uncut with bark still on it , You better have proof of where it came from .. Neighbour cold smacked woody inspector a few years ago, Woody said he was cutting / stealing the crowns trees. Woody needs to find a sharpener and learn who's land he's on when stating such a tale.
    Neighbour has 450 acres or around there,, covered with 150' weeds .. Just because neighbour used a part of my road , someone thought I was stealing trees / logs ..
    Reported me , woody was redirected with me behind .. MY Vehicle DVR has the sound plus the smack , just so the Crown see's how the Tax collectors (Woody's of the world) conduct themselves .. It's a private Utube for now , It was taken for my Neighbour & my piece of mind. We need building permits for fences on farms , that use tax paid lumber ..

    A huge sore point for many farmers, no younger adults 21-35 kids I know want to do farming as I know it..
    Were not poor , but money for bling is not going to happen.

    I follow this thread so I may also buy a heat pump unit.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #282
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    I think PEX supply might have them. This summer I got a pretty good deal on a new indoor unit from a Boston dealer (dropshipper?)
    http://bostonheatingsupply.com/heatpumps.aspx
    They had my unit here in just a few days.. I was amazed. Normally it's taken a long time to get a Sanyo. Everyone is always running out of them.

    R001.jpg
    Fresh in from China..
    R006.jpg
    R003.jpg
    Kind of a cheat install.. Very quick and easy. :)
    downpout.jpg


    Here's where I got my first Sanyo. http://www.minisplitsystems.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=24KHS72
    They are out-of-stock about 70% of the time, I called and got a 2 month lead time on mine, before placing the order.
    I do not recommend this model.. I got the second indoor unit because I learned how to braze copper
    and repaired a leaky outdoor unit. That was taking up space in my garage for months.

    My install and repair stuff is over on http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothermal/
    just look for "Sanyo 24KHS72" threads..

    Cheers,
    Rich
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  • CDN_VT
    CDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    #283
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Thanks Rich , I've got some reading 2do..

    Nice install. Is that 2x3 down pipe ?
    Very creative.

    VT
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #284
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    CDN_VT wrote: »
    Thanks Rich , I've got some reading 2do..

    Nice install. Is that 2x3 down pipe ?
    Very creative.

    VT

    Yeah, There's a Lowes nearby.. :cool:
    That stuff wasn't 'pretty' nuff fer the little woman.. Had to cover it up..
    10uncovered.jpg

    24,000 (36,000 heating) BTUh is a bit much for a small Den, but it was all we had in stock, so to speak..
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  • LucMan
    LucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    #285
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    FYI. Wall units should be installed no lower than 7' off the floor for proper operation.
    The universal mount units can me mounted on the floor as they direct the air up.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #286
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    LucMan wrote: »
    FYI. Wall units should be installed no lower than 7' off the floor for proper operation.
    The universal mount units can me mounted on the floor as they direct the air up.

    You sir are right, according to the manual. (At least for cool-only units),
    but in the real world, a unit used primarily for heating should work okay if it's near the floor.
    The Den floor is cool, so I want to warm it up, directing the air upwards isn't desirable.

    This low-rider setup seems to work really well as a matter of fact. Maybe because it's not
    up near the ceiling, pulling in the warm air that's already up there. (Air intake is on top).
    Seems like cooler air accumulates around the lower part of the room.. ;)

    A high mount is idea for cooling with this type of IDU..
    But, does that really make it idea for heating??

    And, I've found it's a lot easier to inspect the filters (from above), to see if they need to be cleaned.


    Cheers,
    Rich
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,878 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #287
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    A customer who is always contrarian with any hard and fast rules (drives me crazy) has his heat pump mounted just a little higher than yours Rich (at face level) and it works very well. He has 14 feet open beam cathedral ceilings and all he cares about is cooling at bar seat level and down. It just shows you that designing is really an art as much as a science in many cases.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/100660438498145764786/Feb282011#5604138121866135346

    I was looking at your shipping box and was interested in seeing that it is not like this one with the air purging claim. No white Christmas out west this year, might get some work done for once...:roll:
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #288
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    XRinger wrote: »
    A high mount is idea for cooling with this type of IDU..
    But, does that really make it idea for heating??

    If we had more room we might have considered ours lower on the wall. There's already too much filling the rooms at waist height to consider it.
    When I thought of it last I felt a high mounted indoor unit was best to break up stratification in our application. To recirculate the upper heated layer of room air back toward the floor. This happening when the circulating fan is just idling, sampling air temp.

    And besides that, our living room heater is directly above and parallel to the wifes prized COUCH. It covers her in a blanket of slow moving heated air that she would kill to keep!...
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #289
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    My first install was at about face level to the output vent. (Maybe 5' 3").
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/NCL/Sanyo.jpg

    Our ceilings aren't too high, but I still didn't want the IDU up there out of reach.
    What if my wife wants to pull the cover and clean the filters??
    I'm the only 6 footer living here.. :)

    I've seen that 'air purging' around, but I don't think it was on my ODU boxes either.
    Could be a different line.

    Wow, I could get one of those ODUs for $819 and make myself a nice hotwater heater..
    http://bostonheatingsupply.com/CH0971.aspx
    And get rid of this old oil-burner junk... I waste about 1/3 to 1/2 gallon of oil everyday, heating hotwater..
    I am using a solar PV assist on the boiler, just to see if it can be done on a small scale..
    http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar-heating/1968-dhw-pv-still-working.html

    Cheers,
    Rich
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #290
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    SteveK wrote: »
    If we had more room we might have considered ours lower on the wall. There's already too much filling the rooms at waist height to consider it.
    When I thought of it last I felt a high mounted indoor unit was best to break up stratification in our application. To recirculate the upper heated layer of room air back toward the floor. This happening when the circulating fan is just idling, sampling air temp.

    And besides that, our living room heater is directly above and parallel to the wifes prized COUCH. It covers her in a blanket of slow moving heated air that she would kill to keep!...


    Look at these pics, and you will get an idea why we Had to go with a low mount..
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/Green%20slot/z217.jpg
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/Green%20slot/z215.jpg

    There is so much glass in the den, and so little wide open wall space (near the main house),
    there wasn't really any good place for a high mount. And, I wanted to use a short line set.

    The spot under the old kitchen window, is prefect, since it's a very low traffic zone.
    And I was able to use a 15' line sent.. :)

    If I had purchased a new smaller system, I would have had more places to install it.
    But these 24k BTUh IDUs are on the large side..
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  • LucMan
    LucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    #291
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Here's a universal mount unit, they come in handy for those difficult rooms. The only problem is the SEER and HSPF ratings are not as high as some of the wall hungs.
    http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/universal.htm
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #292
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    "Disclaimer:
    Fujitsu General nor any of its affiliates does not offers or extend any warranty protection for products purchased online."

    How are online stores selling them? I can't understand why anyone would order a Fujitsu.
    What if it's DOA after you get it installed?
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  • LucMan
    LucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    #293
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    XRinger wrote: »
    "Disclaimer:
    Fujitsu General nor any of its affiliates does not offers or extend any warranty protection for products purchased online."

    How are online stores selling them? I can't understand why anyone would order a Fujitsu.
    What if it's DOA after you get it installed?

    You could purchase one from a Fujitsu certified contractor.
    That way if you ever have a problem you would have someone to call for repairs.
    They are not for do it yourselfers nor are Mitsubishi, or Daikin.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #294
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Okay maybe I should have said, Why are online stores selling them?

    Do Fujitsu certified contractors buy them online? And then mark them up?

    For the buyer looking at his Quoted price and then seeing the on-line price for the same hardware, that has to be a real bucket of cold water.
    And then when he sees the quoted installer labor cost is 2 or 3 times the marked up online cost.?.

    It's gotta make the buyer re-think the investment. Will he break-even before the unit wears out??

    I have noticed these Fujitsu systems installed at locations that are taxpayer funded. (They have money to burn)?
    It's not very likely I'll ever see a Fujitsu system in my middle class neighborhood.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #295
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    techntrek wrote: »
    60 minutes had a story on Sunday about some city (forget which) that is tearing down thousands of vacant homes - just to prop up the remaining market value. Not recycling the remaining materials, just puting it all in the landfill. Granted they said vandals were stripping out most valuable material beforehand (copper), but even the wood could be reused. That is a waste!

    Happened to come across an article today about someone that built a new home almost entirely from reclaimed materials - wood, window panes, etc. The only new items used were plumbing and wiring. http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-homes/reclaimed-materials-sustainable-home-zm0z11zphe.aspx
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #296
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    Well it's been the first full month of heating with the new Mitsu systems. Along with that comes the electric bill.

    Assuming our normalized (without mini-split included) consumption this month is in line with the "banner month of the year" last year we have incurred a cost of $61.20 in our bill. I have not actually measured the systems but this $61 should be the worst case number against the mini-splits.

    That's $8 less than simply idling the coal stoker.....and yes it has been toasty.
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #297
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    That's a nice bill.. We are burning about 1kw an hour on the colder days (with 2 Sanyos 500w each).
    So it's adding up to about $100 a month projected . We are running both units 24-7 @ 20C ! (Old folks need to keep warm) ;)
    On nights when I remember, I'll set back to 19C, and if we get chilly, we up it to 21C.. Average is abt 20C.

    That's in addition to our regular usage for TV sets etc.. Last month wasn't real cold, and the total bill was $133.39
    I think the last two months have been about 5 deg F above normal.
    Not sure about January, but this Wednesday looks like back-up might be needed.. :blush:

    $100 for the mini-splits seems like a lot, but it's way better than paying 500-600 bucks for #2 heating oil..
    We are still burning abt $60 a month in oil, just heating our DHW.. 1/2 hour burn per day. :grr

    Cheers,
    Rich
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #298
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    SteveK, any new low outside temperature in the last month? New cold wave coming through the east tonight, I'm going down to 10 F, NOAA says you'll be down to 5 F. Well below the low 20's. ;) Maybe you can do some stress testing tomorrow morning to see how well it does if you crank the thermostat up 5 degrees? Measure the output temp at the grill and how long it takes to get up to the new setting?
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #299
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    XRinger, sounds like its time for a replacement DHW system, maybe one of those heat-pump units, or maybe some solar preheat on your existing system?
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    #300
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)

    The honeymoon is over for the season I guess. We've been very fortunate with the OD temperatures. Rich I agree, ditch that oil man.

    We have the heat at a measured 22.2C in the house 24/7 too. So far we have not added any other heat to the home. This is a single level 760 sq/ft home with 21K of mini split doing all the lifting so far. This leaving the bedroom doors cracked open for heat. We did that anyways with the stoker. Next year (if this pans out) we may install a multi zone for the bedrooms. It won't run very much in my opinion.

    Tech, tonights the big night so far. We will see if these can keep up at 5F. I do feel confident.

    My wife says the best part, besides that it blows warm air on her couch...lol, is how it handled Christmas Eve at our house this year. We had 18 people crammed into this house and the continuous mode of the systems kept the temp right at 72F. We went to another same sized home for a party Christmas night with less people in it....it was like a strip joint with all the fat people removing layers and sweating profucely....whew!
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  • XRinger
    XRinger Solar Expert Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    #301
    Re: Sanyo mini split AC (inverter/variable speed)
    techntrek wrote: »
    XRinger, sounds like its time for a replacement DHW system, maybe one of those heat-pump units, or maybe some solar preheat on your existing system?

    You better believe I've been thinking about getting rid of that big old (1956) oil tank!
    I've used preheat solar hotwater before. It's good, but will not cut oil use completely.
    The problem with solar hotwater back in the 70s & 80s, was the fact that Woburn water eats copper.. :(

    I'm using a little bit of PV solar assist on the oil boiler.. Right now it's getting about 750 watts from my 800w array.
    2560 BTUh isn't much, but better than nothing.. :)


    A heat pump DHW heater has been considered. But, my smallish basement is 51.6 deg F..
    And the unit would pull that temperature down even lower.
    When it gets lower, the heater will switch to Grid-Hog mode..

    It's 70 down there during the summer, and the dehumidifying would be welcome..
    But, I'm not sure I want to spend $1,300 for a heater that might not work during the winter.
    By winter, I mean 25 weeks of each year..

    I have considered buying a mini-split outdoor unit (that will work down to 5 deg F)
    and use a hotwater heat exchanger instead of the indoor air handler..
    I could heat my existing boiler, (which can also burn wood, coal & paper junkmail).
    http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/HSTARMOT35.jpg
    In case it gets so cold that even a good ASHP won't work..

    Cheers,
    Rich
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