San Diego 9/2011

Re: San Diego 9/2011

waynefromnscanada wrote: »

Right or wrong, I believe it's only a matter of time till those of us who can continue life as usual when the grid goes down for extended periods, will be very thankful for the decisions we've made. Very interesting item in recent Scientific American, discussing how easy it would be to bring down the grid, taking weeks or even months to repair. As long as I have the physical and mental health to look after my system, loosing the grid is off my worry list, and I won't starve either.
I truly believe that the time is coming when we'll have to look after ourselves. In the meantime we've put our lives in the hands of big corporations, expecting them to look after us. Am I right, or am I a nut, time will tell all.

I am on the same page as you my friend.

Re: San Diego 9/2011

waynefromnscanada wrote: »

Just on the Canadian news: Massive power outage leaves more than 2 million people without power in California, Arizona and Mexico! They may not get power back till tomorrow. No cause stated so far.
Right or wrong, I believe it's only a matter of time till those of us who can continue life as usual when the grid goes down for extended periods, will be very thankful for the decisions we've made. Very interesting item in recent Scientific American, discussing how easy it would be to bring down the grid, taking weeks or even months to repair. As long as I have the physical and mental health to look after my system, loosing the grid is off my worry list, and I won't starve either.
I truly believe that the time is coming when we'll have to look after ourselves. In the meantime we've put our lives in the hands of big corporations, expecting them to look after us. Am I right, or am I a nut, time will tell all.

for the short haul, those with off grid systems will be fine, but it would impact you in other ways in time as gas stations pump no gasoline and retailers make no sales and that is including food stores. unless and until they do similar with some means of backup power then large long term outages will still impact you in spite of the fact your frig still runs and you can still watch tv.

Re: San Diego 9/2011

I've actually taken it a bit further, having my own garden, root cellar etc, with a years supply of food. So survival wise, as long as I didn't get "raided", I could be OK for probably a year. Wouldn't necessarily be fun being grounded with no internet or other common forms of communication, but it would be possible to survive for a while. The next year however would be a challenge, as most of the common garden seeds are hybrid, meaning that you must buy new each year through the commercial market, as seeds saved from hybrid items revert back to some more or less useless state. Potatoes, a couple of kinds of peas, and a couple of kinds of squash are about all I can reproduce on my own by saving their seeds year to year, the rest I must buy. We as a society have passed our survival abilities over to the big guys. But I digress and stray from renewable energy topics.

Re: San Diego 9/2011

waynefromnscanada wrote: »

Right or wrong, I believe it's only a matter of time till those of us who can continue life as usual when the grid goes down for extended periods, will be very thankful for the decisions we've made. ....

....Very interesting item in recent Scientific American, discussing how easy it would be to bring down the grid, taking weeks or even months to repair....

... Potatoes ....

Agree. However, once the grid starts going down with regularity you'll need to sleep next to your PV array with a shotgun to keep it from walking away.

Many moons ago I figured out two weak areas of the distribution system. Heck, one of them I figured out when I was still a kid so it doesn't take a rocket scientist. I've worried about that ever since and it probably has been a partial driver of my need to be able to go off-grid. A good analogy is ignoring the big padlock on the front door and just picking up a rock and throwing it through the back window. And yes, it would take months/years to recover much like a massive solar storm. Economic and social recovery would take a generation because society is so completely unprepared for such an event. Think about 3/4 of society living in cities that would be without water in a day, all running to the suburbs looking for lakes and streams. Then for food.

I've done some research on creating a long-term food supply (beyond buying a big bucket of freeze-dried veggies which will run out) and potatoes are the only good answer I've found. Fairly balanced in various nutrients, easy to over-winter both to eat and for spring planting, easy to start, etc. It kept the English and Irish alive for centuries along with 1000 other cultures as the primary staple so that says a lot. Rice comes close for nutrition, and again it has kept many billions of people alive over the years, but misses the mark in ease-of-growth at least for most of North America.

Re: San Diego 9/2011

techntrek wrote: »

Agree. However, once the grid starts going down with regularity you'll need to sleep next to your PV array with a shotgun to keep it from walking away.

Many moons ago I figured out two weak areas of the distribution system. Heck, one of them I figured out when I was still a kid so it doesn't take a rocket scientist. I've worried about that ever since and it probably has been a partial driver of my need to be able to go off-grid. A good analogy is ignoring the big padlock on the front door and just picking up a rock and throwing it through the back window. And yes, it would take months/years to recover much like a massive solar storm. Economic and social recovery would take a generation because society is so completely unprepared for such an event. Think about 3/4 of society living in cities that would be without water in a day, all running to the suburbs looking for lakes and streams. Then for food.

I've done some research on creating a long-term food supply (beyond buying a big bucket of freeze-dried veggies which will run out) and potatoes are the only good answer I've found. Fairly balanced in various nutrients, easy to over-winter both to eat and for spring planting, easy to start, etc. It kept the English and Irish alive for centuries along with 1000 other cultures as the primary staple so that says a lot. Rice comes close for nutrition, and again it has kept many billions of people alive over the years, but misses the mark in ease-of-growth at least for most of North America.

Add onions, leeks, and Shallots for easy of starting/growing and additional nutrients not found in the starchy brethren. Don't forget about Garlic as well.

Re: San Diego 9/2011

solar_dave wrote: »

Add onions, leeks, and Shallots for easy of starting/growing and additional nutrients not found in the starchy brethren. Don't forget about Garlic as well.

I'll look into it, thanks.

Re: San Diego 9/2011

I just view the entire power outage this way:

One guy did it ... accidently.

Would this indicate how vulnerable most people's power grid is, should some individual or group specifically target it?

My concern relates more to a solar storm. Would my charge controllers and inverters be toast? Of course I realize IF that was the case, would my satellite receiver and TV still work? I assume they might, IF they weren't on at the time, whereas the controllers and inverters are always on. Then the question becomes "will there be anything to watch?".

Our emergency rations, I figure, will last until someone kills us and takes the food.

Phil

Re: San Diego 9/2011

in pertaining to the grid the question was if we are that vulnerable? i would love to say no we aren't vulnerable, but that's being unrealistic as there are too many natural, accidental, and intentional ways it can happen. add to that the neglect of the grid from the utilities and it's a recipe for disaster bound to repeat itself over and over with varying degrees of severity and duration.

outages were my primary reason for getting into solar. i do admit i had a secondary reason too as i found the whole thing with solar panels, batteries, and inverters quite intriguing and i was drawn to it. some of you can probably relate.

as to others that know what you have, i doubt they would run right out to get their own. the 1st thing that stops most of the interested ones is the costs, be they can afford it or not, and some may eventually pursue it with many of them saving until it does happen. too many people would view what you have as theirs anyway during a desperate time as they think they have a license to steal what you have rather than do it for themselves before hand. human nature during desperate times is funny that some try to invent or help, some just lay back and blow things to the wind, and the rest think the world owes them and they will do underhanded things in that belief. what pans out to be is strange at times for take new york city for example, on 1 hand you have what transpired on 9/11 and it brought out many heros. i'm sure the other bad category of people were there too, but very few i hope. now further back when there was a problem with the grid and caused a major blackout in the northeast that same city had rioting and looting. as with the 1st example i'm sure the good category of people were present, but weren't as prominent. if by example a power outage brings out the bad then i feel uneasy letting them know i have lights/electricity. the biggest category in all cases are those that do nothing, but lay back and blow things to the wind. i guess this is a sort of summary of human nature and it can be said as, the good, the bad, and the lazy. do note some categories can overlap to some extent.