L.G. Refrigerator

54d18

I've posted before asking about fridges, I ran into this as a possibility,
just looking for any opinions or comments about it, says it's Inverter?

https://www.costco.ca/lg-24-in.-11-cu.ft--platinum-silver-counter-depth-top-mount-refrigerator-with-smart-diagnosis.product.100462755.html

Thanks,

T

Dave Angelini

Really small ! What is it for?     Are you married and want to stay that way?

mcgivor

Inverter based refrigerators do not generally save much energy over low consumption non inverter types, the benefits are however favorable when used in a solar application, the most important of which is the lack of starting surge associated with a regular compressor. They maintain a more stable temperature being able to modulate the compressor speed according to demand, as opposed to an on off running where throttling range is greater.

The most efficient types, energy consumption wise, will use a linear compressor with R32A or R600A refrigerant which are not common in North America, where R134A or R410A are more commonplace Being that the linked model has no reference to the refrigerant used but dose have a linear compressor, it may be worth reaching the actual refrigerant used.

54d18

The reason for such a small fridge is because it's for a remote hunt/fish camp, weekend use
and occasionally 1 week at a time.

A quick search to LG site, in the manual it mentions the use of R600a refrigerant.
I suppose it's probably not that bad then?

T

706jim

I looked at the fridge specifications and think it will be a good fit for your cabin. I have a fridge about the same size and figure it can hold a LOT of food. Plus it won't overpower the room like a full size would. I couldn't find anything about power consumption in the manual but can state that it is probably as good or better than my Insignia fridge which takes about 1Kw-hr per 24 hour day.

54d18

I wound up buying this fridge, so far, I'm very happy with it.

https://www.thebrick.com/products/lg-11-1-cu-ft-counter-depth-compact-top-freezer-refrigerator-ltnc11131v

RCinFLA

Check the AC line power factor with a Kill-A-Watt meter.  These 120vac inverter refrigerators often have terrible PF due to non-power factor correcting power supply.  Hopefully, because sold by Wind & Sun it was checked.

My Samsung inverter refrig has a PF of 0.60 to 0.65.  This increases peak current which increases battery powered inverter losses.

JRHill

54d18 said:

I've posted before asking about fridges, I ran into this as a possibility,
just looking for any opinions or comments about it, says it's Inverter?

https://www.costco.ca/lg-24-in.-11-cu.ft--platinum-silver-counter-depth-top-mount-refrigerator-with-smart-diagnosis.product.100462755.html

Thanks,

T

I understand this. We are off grid as I suppose your cabin is as well. But what is your power? Solar? System voltage and inverter size? Or is it generator with the fridge on when the generator is running ?

This year we had to replace a 12 year old Maytag 21' Energy Star. It had been a great fridge but when it went warm we couldn't mess around so we bought a Samsung 21', also EnergyStar rated. Your reference to an inverter fridge intrigued me. I can understand the ramping up and down, surge draw, etc. But both our old Maytag w/ice and the new Samsung w/ice (not that the ice matters except for overall draw) are minimal for inrush. With the Kill-a-watt, the new Samsung is 37.7 watts per hour after stabilized. The old Maytag was a bit higher draw per hour on average but not so much.

A biggie to me is service. We couldn't get anyone to show up fix the Maytag. In turned out to just be the freezer to fridge circulating fan which is common. There is still a problem with the thermostat. And I had to add a squirt of coolant. I just don't want to spend another $150 part on it as its now a backup deck fridge. This is a different conversation.

So I guess I need some education. Yes, power factor is an issue but on a newer Energy Star appliances in good working order? The draws are so very low? We have the two fridges, two Maytag Energy Star chest freezers, LG DC direct drive washer (granted, once/week for multiple cycles) and many of the things that city dwellers hold important with the obvious exceptions. And the inrush is almost not worth noting on any of these on the ES stuff.

Please explain.

NANOcontrol

I love the LG direct drive washer with lower current motor. I hauled a working machine to scrap just to get this lower current I run it from panels with no battery with a modified MSW inverter. If a cloud passes over it stops, but remembers where it was. I'm always working in the garage and restart it with a push of the button. It also has its own 40 gallon hot water tank heated by PV.  All cycles use hot water. This machine doesn't get the mold buildup in the dispenser tube like my LG at home.  I'm starting to look for an inverter fridge. One issue I have is my inverter does not run all the time and a new fridge will wait 10 minutes after power is applied before it starts.  Cheaper fridge models I can likely modify the electronics, so this is not a problem.  I just modified my inverter so startup current is now half, well below what a 100AH lipo can provide.

JRHill

I woke up last night thinking of this PF conversation. Duh, yeah, this stuff stays with me. I had to look it up again. My memory fades faster than it used to and I needed a refresher: Here is a good layman's description and go to the example:

https://laurenselectric.com/home/business/understanding-power-factor/

This one of the best layman term descriptions I have read. And this is key: "A steel stamping operation runs at 100 kW (Working Power) and the Apparent Power meter records 125 kVA. To find the PF, divide 100 kW by 125 kVA to yield a PF of 80%. This means that only 80% of the incoming current does useful work and 20% is wasted through heating up the conductors."

What does this mean to an off grid user? Yeah, a lot of AC motors suck for efficiency. The water well, the shop equipment, the vacuum cleaner (with other loads), etc.. We already know those precautions. But still, if the system is sized correctly and you are using loads when and where best, who gives a flip? It matters not to your inverter as long as it was sized correctly. The bottom line to me is to minimize inrush. We have a 3600 watt inverter. Almost never has it kicked out unless on generator power and then to bypass, falling back to the inverter solely. And that was the lack of the generator and the surge load. Once that surge is done it does back to the generator feed through. A fraction of a minute.

Of course we want to get the best "bang-for-the-buck" and minimize hitting electrical stuff with a sledgehammer, but to what end? To me it is heat. If an electric motor heats it is waste. If the batteries heat it is waste. As components heat it is waste. If wires heat it is not only designed poorly but dangerous.

So getting wound up about the PF of a refrigerator/freezer is silly, but always use an Energy Star evice. Water well, ah, that's a biggy.** Of course the better PF the better. But paying bazzillions of $ for the absolutely lowest PF device is a return you might not realize - unless you are running your system right up against its top capabilities.

**As for a water well pump, I was fortunate to go with a Grundfos SQF AC/DC. It slow starts with whatever it gets but it was pricey then. But 15 years later it hasn't missed a beat and doesn't care the source, AC or DC. Considering what I saved not building a bigger system to handle inrush from just the well, our biggest potential load, it has paid back multiples. And since the original plan I don't have a separate solar input for just the well cause the 48v batteries expired. I plug it into the house 120vac system with a 16ga cord. 800 watts. The difference is minimal unless a hose bursts.

706jim

For years my inverter ran in standby mode switching on whenever I turned on a light or a TV. Presently it runs 24/7 for six months of the year NOT on standby. One reason for this change was the addition of an electric fridge. The relatively small current required to run my inverter (350ma) is easily offset by an increase in panels and battery. If you're gonna run a fridge, I think your inverter should run steady.

NANOcontrol

"20% is wasted through heating up the conductors."

That should read 20% more actual losses if the power factor was perfect.  So, if resistance loss was 5W, it will be 6W with 80%. Nothing to lose sleep over. With inverter fridges all the current is at the peak making it look more like a MSW inverter. Inverter doesn't care it just draws more power at the peaks.

JRHill

"...heating up the conductors." Yeah, I agree that is loosely worded.