Is my car Lithium jump pack dead?

Photowhit
Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Well, I should know better, and don't even know the brand...

I've got an amazing lithium jump pack, but left it in the car.  Where else would you leave it...lol

Wonder what the storage temps are for it? It's not on charge or being used, but it's been down to -10. I wonder what the storage temps are for them? I'll warm it up and charge it before I try to use it...
Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    The storage temperature is -40° C or °F, below freezing however  they begin to have problems moving ions, which is needed for them to operate correctly, It's best not to attempt charging or dischargeing until they have reached above 5°C or 41°F, the capacity will begin to recover above this value, recovering to last state of charge at or around room temperature.

    Kind of a paradox, they have such positive attributes but are let down by physics, which applies to all chemistries but to a lesser degree to those we are more familiar with, such as lead acid.


    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
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  • Chris11
    Chris11 Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭
    #3
    I just bought one from Costco.  After I read your post I read the instructions ( hey, I'm a man and we normally don't need to read them ) and in mine which has the lithium ion battery, it doesn't even mention low temp.  It does say the display will read "too hot" if the battery is over 55 degrees C and shut down. 
    As an aside point I measured the voltage once I charged it fully and it only reads 5.02 volts.  How is this possible for a 12 volt jump?  It does work correctly ... my lil 50 cc hog's tiny battery is on it's last leg so I tried the jumper on it and it fired right up despite freezing temps.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,637 admin
    edited February 2021 #4
    Which unit do you have? One of these?

    https://www.costco.com/CatalogSearch?dept=All&keyword=lithium+battery+jumper

    Need to find an instruction manual... But many of these are dual purpose... One is a USB "power bank" (5 volts for basic USB), and have a 12 volt output too for jumping a car.

    And you need to read between the lines about how much energy they store... For example, this one does (sort of) tell you how much it stores:

    https://www.costco.com/cobra-jumppack-xl-h2o-jump-starter-power-pack.product.100412231.html

    This compact UL 2743 certified portable power pack contains a powerful 44.4Wh (12,000mAh) battery with dual 3 amp each USB outputs to rapidly charge two 5 Volt portable devices simultaneously making it the ideal emergency battery pack for home, office, vehicle or the outdoors.
    • Two Jump Start Options
    • 400 Amp Starting Current, 600 Amp Peak Current
    • Dual 3 Amp USB Ports
    • Built-in LED Flashlight
    • Safe to Use in Any Weather condition
    • Charge Your Phone
    • Start from Inside the Vehicle
    400 and 600 amps from something the size of a paperback book--Pretty impressive. Real numbers...
    • 12,000 mAmpHours -- Sounds big.
    • 12 AH -- Compared to a typical car battery at 80 AH--Not so much
    • 44.4 WH / 12 AH = 3.7 volts -- That is the voltage of a single Li Ion cell (LiFePO4)
    • 44.4 WH / 12 volt car battery = 3.7 AH
    • 3.7 AH * 1/400 Amps * 3,600 seconds per hour = 33 seconds of cranking at 12 volts
    The manual says -14F to 113F for storage--But keep indoors in cold weather.... Not much help there.

    Typical LiFePO4 operating range 10C to 40C (50F to 104F):

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278708441_LiFePO4_optimal_operation_temperature_range_analysis_for_EVHEV

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Simply storing it in chilly cold below zero won't kill it.  Trying to use it below 40F will be frustrating.  trying to recharge it below 40F will damage it.   
    Warm it up to 50 or 60F for a couple hours, and it should be fine.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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  • Chris11
    Chris11 Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭
    #6
    Bill,
    Nope, not that one.  The one I bought was off the shelf in Costco but they do have it onlne also for 10 bucks more.  It's the Type S .... 8000 mAh.  Not as good as the one you pointed to but it did start my scooter with a dead battery.  The real test is to try it on my 3 cylinder diesel tractor.  Results coming soon, when gungho overcomes too lazy.
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  • Chris11
    Chris11 Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭
    #7
    K... today was sunny and nice.  Temp about 35 when I went to the shop.  I did start the tractor first with it's battery since the engine doesn't have glo plugs.  I let it warm up for about 2 minutes, maybe slightly less.  I disconnected it's battery and used the jumpy thing..  It It turned the engine over for about 1 second....tried a second time and the same thing happeded.  No start, not even close.
    This particular jump starter isn't very good.  I'm going to return it for the better one online.
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