LiFePO4 talk

Chris11Chris11 Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭
Hello All,

I've been watching a guy named Will Prouse on YouTube....seems very knowledgable on solar stuff.  Most of what he says is above my head so I drank a bunch of beer to see it that increased my understanding.  Well let me report it didn't but I no longer cared so it kiinda worked perfectly.
The video I was watching was Will doing some review on LiFePO4 batteries.  Since he talks so fast and obviously I hadn't drank enough beer I didn't understand it.
Question:
What attracts people to pay about a bazillion dollars more to get approximately the same capacity, keeping in mind that technology is advancing so rapidly that type of battery may be obsolete in a few years?

Thanks, Chris     (Oh, it's OK, I've been drinking beer so you can type fast and be really smart.)

Comments

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm NOT a fan of Will. Lithium has a lot of great qualities for off grid systems.

    Their light weight would make them particularly interesting for RV use.

    They are very efficient at storing energy. Losing only 3-5% when charging and storing compared to 10-20% for flooded lead acid.

    They are expensive and require a Battery management system.

    They don't work well when below 40 and should not be charged below 32 degrees. 
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,198 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't drink beer or watch foolTube
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • AmpsterAmpster Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited January 15 #4
    Chris11 said:
    Question:
    What attracts people to pay about a bazillion dollars more to get approximately the same capacity, keeping in mind that technology is advancing so rapidly that type of battery may be obsolete in a few years?

    I have made several assumptions that are different than yours so I have reached a different conclusion. I gave up on Lead Acid batteries when I converted a VW to electric nine years ago. Since then I have been using Lithium batteries for several grid interactive systems. The last group I purchased cost less than $110 per kWh. I have seen another brand for less than $100 per kWh. That technology has been around for 20 years and I do not expect it will be obsolete in a few years. Based on the manufacturing capacity that is under construction just in the USA by Tesla and GM it will be around for a while. Nothing else on the horizon can match its energy density. For stationary storage I prefer the safer LFP chemistry.. 
     It all depends on where you are standing. 
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,198 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ampster said:
      ...Based on the manufacturing capacity that is under construction just in the USA by Tesla and GM it will be around for a while. .....
    Are you saying they will get a shipment of raw material and construct the cells, or are they getting a pallet of cells from overseas, and assembling them into a vehicle battery ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • AmpsterAmpster Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited January 17 #6
    Are you saying they will get a shipment of raw material and construct the cells, or are they getting a pallet of cells from overseas, and assembling them into a vehicle battery ?
    Panasonic Energy North America manages that process for Tesla at the factory in Nevada and they start with raw materials. I saw a recent discussion by one of the managers and they mentioned that they produce a million cells per day of the small cells. They are starting to ramp up the larger cells and the quantity may ramp down but the GWhrs will probably increase. I do not know the output in GWhs but that factory has only been built out to 50 percent of the total available capacity. 
    I do not know the details of the GM and LG Chem partnership at Lordstown. Curently GM imports cells from LG Chem factories in Asia. That factory is nearing completion.
    Lead acid battery manufacturing capacity is currently greater than Lithium but the numbers I have seen suggest that it is not growing. I do not know if that is a US statistic or a global statistic.
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