Nature causes power outages. Politics causes power to go out during 100 degree days.

Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
Guess what happens when the wind does not blow and the sun goes down. Add in 100 degree weather. Add in wildfire smoke. Guess?

California has so much solar we pay other states to take it. We then buy energy from them after the sun goes down.  Insanity, but in the land of fruits and nuts it is just another day. Might not have enough water to keep the fruit and nuts growing but for now, they are great.

Some here feel it is not a big deal to lose power when it is hot in the year 2020. The governor says he is sorry and will do better....
"we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
E-mail [email protected]

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Comments

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't realize California had gotten to that point already, I had read about Germany paying other countries to take their excess.

    Guess I miss where this created a power loss, has California not got enough backup power generation?
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭✭
    Photowhit said:
    I didn't realize California had gotten to that point already, I had read about Germany paying other countries to take their excess.

    Guess I miss where this created a power loss, has California not got enough backup power generation?
    Some feel that years of mismanagement by the Pelosi family (Gruesome is her nephew) has run the Golden State into a corner with with extraction will be difficult if even possible. More are fleeing than are coming in. Yet California has always been quite divided. Very left in LA and SF while the rest of the state is reliably red. 

    While both parties have historical weaknesses, it is now quite clear that the left quite often is unable to balance the books. Raising taxes yet again is unlikely to make the incompetent suddenly competent. It is really quite a dire situation at this point. 

    Yet another illustration of the dangers of family political dynasties exercising power for far too long? The Bush's, Clinton's and Pelosi's to name a few. Perhaps I am wrong? 

    Perhaps it is wrong to discuss politics yet our destiny is to have our lives managed, in many ways, by - politics. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 809 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19 #4
    Dave,
    There was a big boat parade on the lake on Saturday afternoon (it was a balmy 103F) and running on the water with the bimini top up was actually comfortable. I did not make the 16 mile run North for the parade, but I did go 6 miles South to Party Cove to check out the remaining few boats who still wanted to party. Wanna guess what music was playing in my boat?
    No power shortages reported!

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice in Texas. We know how to get there !  California use to do that also. Just imagine what will happen when San Onofre goes offline in a few years. 

    We be fine, 73f inside and heading for 100+ out in the yard. Looking like 2 weeks of this. Better eat your wheaties!

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-blackouts-a-warning-for-states-ramping-up-green-power-11597706934

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article245022345.html

    https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18 #6
    My root cellar is at 63F with a previous high of 61F. Wondering about that. Denver home was seemingly hotter then ever this week-end. Hard to fall asleep. 

    Huge wildfire in Glenwood Springs area causing state wide smoke it seems. EDIT: We have four wildfires currently.  Denver has been as dry as dust this summer. 

    Unreal problems and challenges - everywhere right now. Had to terminate the tumbleweed eating but demonic goat last night - long story that. Losing a pet is painful - second one in three months. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kalif has has many years of power plant destruction and artificially optimistic expectations of what is possible.  And now it's going to be magically solved with "grid scale storage".   Didn't one of those "fail with flames" recently ?

     Hydro power kills fish, coal kills the environment, natural gas is being banned for new building construction (in favor of clean electricity for cooking) and nuke power is outright evil, according to the state government.   Solar and Wind baby !

    An so residents are left with "power alerts" for the last 6 days, Alerts from Noon to midnight, stand by for outages 3pm - 9pm. and rolling blackouts from 6-8pm.   It's ugly.  As ugly as a micro grid, with a shared battery bank, and everyone is sucking the battery dry before their neighbor gets some.

    Other states have no power to export, and half the cross country transmission lines are in poor repair as PG&E flails around after 40 years of deferred maintenance. 

     It's ugly and I'm glad I'm off grid
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭✭
    Cali has huge problems. One is that Hollywood is a big gear driving LA. May be awhile before Hollywood gets its groove back. Too much nice weather seems to have induced a lot of unrealistic expectations. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    here's todays graphic  ( and I'll update with stage 3 if power is still on the interwebs )
    From the California Grid Central Control

     ( and remember, the last 6 days system maintenance has been restricted to only the most dire requirements )


    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19 #10
    Dave,
    There was a big boat parade on the lake on Saturday afternoon (it was a balmy 103F) and running on the water with the bimini top up was actually comfortable. I did not make the 16 mile run North for the parade, but I did go 6 miles South to Party Cove to check out the remaining few boats who still wanted to party. Wanna guess what music was playing in my boat?
    No power shortages reported!

    I am thinking it was Billy GibbonsFrank BeardDusty Hill.  But it could have been the Young brothers with Bonn Scott.

    Either way, it is a long way to the top where those guys live.  Stay cool down there.


    Lot's of checks in Mikes graph. We do live in interesting times.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,939 admin
    And "down here" (SF Bay Area), we are getting a pretty thick blanket of haze/smoke from all of the fires going on right now (many/most/all?) caused by our lightning storms that rolled through here a couple days ago.

    https://www.sfgate.com/california-wildfires/article/bay-area-wildfires-lightning-complex-napa-fires-15494268.php

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I got 2 warnings on Insight2 of that lightning complex from a bud in Santa Cruz. Nasty to have that, but it is August and the worst month out west. Losing power for insane reasons is just crazy. I hear the heat wave will be over on 8 - 29. Sorry to be so cheery. All three of our Cal Fire strike teams are down south. Save a few for us if they are needed, please.

    This thread is really not about repubs and dems. I think it is about choosing to be a socialist state or a free one. I hope the pendulum swings before they mess it up to the FUBAR stage. Think of Musk, Uber and all the innovation that started here. 

    Eating some perfectly ripe Figs right now, It is not all bad ;) Unless the Birds find them this afternoon....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,939 admin
    California passed AB5 which makes it almost impossible to be a contractor in most jobs... Everyone becomes an employee with full benefits/etc.

    Or, not:

    https://www.sfgate.com/ride-sharing/article/Uber-shut-down-California-AB5-lawsuit-judge-appeal-15478285.php

    Two days after a San Francisco judge ruled that Uber and Lyft must classify their drivers as employees and not contractors, Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi stated that the ride-sharing service might shut down in California for months.

    "If the court doesn’t reconsider, then in California, it’s hard to believe we’ll be able to switch our model to full-time employment quickly,” Khosrowshahi told MSNBC Wednesday.

    California Attorney General Xavier Becerra filed the lawsuit in San Francisco Superior Court. It alleged that Uber and Lyft violated AB5, which mandates that gig workers be classified as full employees in order to receive benefits. Uber and Lyft plan to appeal the judge's ruling, and have another route of overturning the decision when the state's voters will be faced with Proposition 22, a ballot initiative that exempts app-based drivers from AB5.

    But for some reason, California Newspapers could be exempt for the next 1-2 years:

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-could-give-newspapers-a-2-year-labor-15476268.php

    SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California newspaper companies would have two more years to comply with a state law requiring them to treat newspaper delivery people like employees instead of contractors, under a bill that took its first step in the Legislature on Tuesday.

    The same bill would require state departments and agencies to place their marketing and outreach advertising with community and ethnic news outlets, helping an industry that has had revenues devastated by the coronavirus pandemic.

    A law that took effect earlier this year makes it harder for companies to treat their workers as contractors who are not entitled to minimum wage and certain benefits.

    It was most prominently aimed at ride-hailing giants Uber and Lyft. A judge on Monday ordered those companies to treat their California drivers as employees — with benefits including overtime, sick leave and expense reimbursement.

    But newspaper companies have said treating carriers as employees would drive up costs and accelerate the decline of printed newspapers.

    Lawmakers had already provided a one-year reprieve to newspapers from the contractor law, which the bill by Democratic Assemblywoman Blanca Rubio of Baldwin Park would extend to Jan. 1, 2023.

    Wonder why....???....

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The newspapers may not make it anyway. A dying breed. Perfect timing here also.

    Some person needs some extra bucks during C19 and they can't deliver restaurant food unless they have health care and other employee taxes. Good timing from Sacramento on ab5. Where is Baldwin Park? Thought you would know BB :)

    Pretty smokey out there, our first day of the smoke part. The monsoon moisture is going to bring the hi voltage stuff here later today.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Baldwin Park is a town in the suburbs of LA.

    Current outages are simply a manifestation of actions and policy's crammed into the system by "public servants" . And now they don't like it.  If SCE had not been split up from generation and distribution, it stays very clear who is responsible.  But now with dozens of energy generators and dozens more in charge of distribution and nobody in charge of maintenance there's lots of room for finger pointing and blame spreading.  The flaws stayed hidden until this month when imports of dirty coal fired electricity dropped because it was no longer excess to the owner, they wanted to use it themselves.  And all the plants closed in Calif, didn't help. 

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭✭
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice three day holiday starts today. Be ready to have your power shut off in the record 100+ heat in the "golden state". The Flex Alert is at 3pm, the heat of the day for at least 3 days. You are suppose to feel good about this because you are saving the planet from all of the wildfire smoke. 

    I heard a professor at Berkeley say that it would get worse unless we elect Biden. He went on to say that the natural gas generators can't run in the high heat. I wrote him an email and asked why they can't run in california but are fine in all of the southwestern states? He did write back and say they can only run one pass thru heat exchangers for ocean and lake cooling and shut down over 90F.

    I looked into it and he is right.The devil in the details were that the state took alot of liberty with the endangered species act in 2010. They forced the utilities to run only one pass into the cooling loop and then they shut down. There is a large list of plants that are going to close this year unless some sanity returns. The utilities warned about this at the time but solar and wind were the driver and everyone got paid well.

    Happy Labor day!   Work in the shade.....


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,939 admin
    edited September 7 #18
    3x backup generators (5x if include inlaw's).
    Bunch of gas cans with fuel preservative.
    All set for a couple weeks...(no A/C. So that part may not be fun unless we sit in the idling car).
    Those cities that are starting to outlaw new natural gas connections are left with no electric cooking, no hot water, etc. Really?
    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4 #19
    Sounds like you are ready. Hope you don't need it!  Crossing fingers.

     I know you know but others may not know how simple it is to filter indoor air with a box fan. I could not find the link with a charcoal filter but here is one that works for smoke and medium particles.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-Safe-20-in-Box-Fan-Filter-FF-20/307280271

    Found it.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-20-in-x-20-in-x-1-in-Elite-Allergen-Pleated-FPR-10-Air-Filter-HW10FPR20201/303490009
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Trump has squashed some infrastructure up grades and some he squashed as burgeoning ideas. Here's one to help deal with the transient nature of renewable energies.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/how-trump-appointees-short-circuited-grid-modernization/615433/?fbclid=IwAR05jEHktlPEGEtvySTHMqVYd7EadW0mxOFdJVy2-2lv_GwL41_TjxS6SCI
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And now in NoCal, we got the heads up for high winds Tues, which may trigger the PoCo to shut down parts of the grid with sub-standard maintenance (gotta love deferring maint for 30 years and putting it into dividends) and we get PublicSafetyPowerShutdowns PSPS
    https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/emergency-preparedness/natural-disaster/wildfires/psps-weather-map.page

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 809 ✭✭✭✭
    Photowhit said:
    Trump has squashed some infrastructure up grades and some he squashed as burgeoning ideas. Here's one to help deal with the transient nature of renewable energies.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/how-trump-appointees-short-circuited-grid-modernization/615433/?fbclid=IwAR05jEHktlPEGEtvySTHMqVYd7EadW0mxOFdJVy2-2lv_GwL41_TjxS6SCI

    I read about this and realized it appears to be just a hit piece. Strengthening the grid and increasing power transmission between the three grids has been discussed for at least 40-50 years. Yes, I agree that it is a good idea but nobody has decided to tackle it for these many years.
    What exactly did Trump squash? What are the super special new things in the missing report that we did not already know? Were there fatal flaws in the report?  The Atlantic article is filled with glittering generalities about how we missed a chance to save the world. I am certainly not defending Trump or his people - just trying to apply some critical thinking to the question of why.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 809 ✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like you are ready. Hope you don't need it!  Crossing fingers.

     I know you know but others may not know how simple it is to filter indoor air with a box fan. I could not find the link with a charcoal filter but here is one that works for smoke and medium particles.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-Safe-20-in-Box-Fan-Filter-FF-20/307280271

    Found it.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-20-in-x-20-in-x-1-in-Elite-Allergen-Pleated-FPR-10-Air-Filter-HW10FPR20201/303490009

    Yes!
    Always use the higher-rated filters like the one that you linked. The box fan approach really does help a lot if you run it 24/7. I use filters with a similar filtration rating in my central system. The cheap OEM filters are only good enough to delay plugging up the coil. Remember that some of the tiniest particles can get embedded deep into your lungs.
    In a previous life, I was a commercial HVAC system designer/contractor. When you have the contents of dirty air filters analyzed, you quickly discover just how many skin cells people shed on a daily basis - along with a whole lot of other things in the air.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5 #24
    In 2010 when California made stupid decisions to not let existing natural gas generators (with 35 years more expected life)  cool with heat exchangers President Obama was the man. One may like to blame president Trump but.... 

    Personally, I think as a native here, it really did not matter who the president was. A one party state is often going to make bad decisions.

    To be fair, this 40 million+ state has enormous problems with pollution and keeping the 5th largest economy in the world powered for business. There are huge portions of the state (rural) that feed alot of the world, that have little say in the government of its people.

    Cal Trans had plans to build the foothills freeway, an interstate north/south along the Sierra. That got canceled by the Sierra club lobby and so now we have countless thousands of small trucks driving 2 lane undivided roads each day. The same with highway 99, a main artery that is blocked from having more than 2 lanes. The slap in the face to us down here, in the state of Jefferson, is the high speed rail project. Now known as the train to nowhere, continues. You should drive down along the 2 lane portion of 99 and see the 100's of millions, probaby billions, being spent building on these concrete vistas, monoliths, whatever. Great places for spray paint art.

     In the rural parts of the state, 2 lanes to let the rural folks know who runs the state. God bless Texas!



    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Photowhit said:
    Trump has squashed some infrastructure up grades....
    What exactly did Trump squash? 
    For a guy who claims to understand business, he does a lot of stupid things.

    Like the solar tariff threat that frozen the solar industry in 2018, because he would set a new tariff for most of a year...

    Similarly, due to sourcing foreign parts, worried about cyber attacks, shut down a lot of maintenance parts from foreign vendors, creating problems within the industry. Mostly 'dumb' parts too... Though perhaps the 'up grades' would have been smart enabled parts, so maybe I got that wrong.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea maybe....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,939 admin
    And this stuff (wind and solar) is getting old enough that disposing of non-recyclable materials in landfills is becoming a major problem:

    https://principia-scientific.com/50000-tons-of-useless-wind-turbine-blades-dumped-in-the-landfill/

    https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/solar/the-mounting-solar-panel-waste-problem/

    California’s Approach

    Because California’s solar panels end up in landfills at the end of their useful life, the state is in the process of implementing regulations to change that. California’s Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC) held a meeting with solar and waste industry representatives to discuss the disposal issue. The representatives and DTSC acknowledged that it would be difficult to determine whether a used solar panel should be classified as hazardous waste. The DTSC suggested building a database where solar panels and their toxicity could be tracked by their model numbers, but it is not clear whether DTSC will implement such a data base.

    Natural events such as hail storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. can cause damage to the panels.  For example, in 2015, a tornado broke 200,000 solar modules at southern California’s solar farm Desert Sunlight. More recently, the second largest solar farm in Puerto Rico, generating 40 percent of the island’s electricity, was severely damaged during Hurricane Maria. With 100,000 pounds of cadmium contained in 1.8 million solar panels calculated for a proposed 6,350 acre proposed solar farm in Virginia, any breakage is a cause for concern. Further, even rainwater has been found to flush out cadmium within an intact solar panel.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6 #28
    Definitely a major problem with the lack of clear instructions. Our dump takes it out to the Waste management "compound" near Kettleman city. It is in the middle of nowhere and looks at night like the military camp in Close Encounters. Armed guards on patrol. Creepy squared.

    We were up alot of last night listening to night flying copters trying to rescue campers stranded by fire up at Mammoth pools. Really horrific pleas on the scanner. Saw pictures of a family being rescued off the roof of their RV. No sun here this AM but squeezing 500 watts out for the split and reefer. Nasty business this Creek Fire. Some really rugged high country that was beautiful beyond description. No Lightning so this one is human caused. More below.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/creek-fire-california-wildfire-smoke-plume-weather-pyrocumulonimbus-clouds
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mendocino county is looking at Flex Alert rolling blackouts the next two evenings, and then PSPS shutdown Tues - Wed
    and it's roasting hot and folks will just run their AC as cold as they can to "ride thru" any outage.  Grim if you rely on the Grid !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6 #30
    The Governor says he will give us a report on all of this. Should be good times after he reports. Be well Mike !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7 #31
    Just heard the lake power system Big Creek, 1 megawatt  1,000 megawatt southern edison is gone from the Creek Fire.

     The area was filled with dead ponderosa pines killed by bark beetles about 4 years back. People/loggers wanted the wood but it was denied. Still suffering from bad forest management the firefighters are trying to let it burn today, and do structure protection of these pristine and historical Edison alpine lake towns.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Creek_Hydroelectric_Project

    The greenhouse gas saving program in California is in the negative for 2 years out from the summer fires. The current data does not count the fire smoke so California is still looking very green in Sacramento. High wind warnings out starting tuesday night.

    The Air national guard used drones to guide them in at night in fire and intense smoke to rescue the Labor Day campers. They are at the top of the heros list, as just flying in these mountains during clear daylight is risky. Nice to have something nice to say. Solar is also working today which is nice. Good Luck this week.


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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