24 volt forklift battery no longer accepting a charge

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softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
It was quite happy less than two weeks ago. The panels are supplying 42 volts to the charge controller. The controller is supplying almost 28 volts to the battery. Nothing is happening to the battery. It is not accepting a charge. Cleaning the connections did nothing.

The battery is now below 23 volts in spite of disconnecting loads yesterday. And I can't go a day without something going kaput it seems.

Ugh.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #2
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    Did you check the voltage across each cell and SG of each cell?

    And why I don't recommend much of anything... Somewhere, somehow, somebody will find my recommendation a failure (if not me down the road).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Wouldn't hurt to try that. For right now though? It was aliens.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    All cells measures between 1.9 and 2.2 volts. Very discouraging but does not explain inability to accept a charge. The connections are solid, I can't pull them apart. Another mystery cometh. Every day.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    How old is the battery?
    Island cottage solar system with 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter, Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller 8 Trojan L16's. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge. My 30th year.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #6
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    What is the AH rating of the bank (20 hour rate?) and the charging current @ 28 volts?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    706jim said:
    How old is the battery?

    Going by memory here - done for the day. Seven years - nothing for a forklift battery.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    BB. said:
    What is the AH rating of the bank (20 hour rate?) and the charging current @ 28 volts?

    -Bill

    Good questions but it charged fine for the few years I have had it. Until now. I need to work on the connections - the logical problem.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    If you are able to get power out of the battery to run an inverter, the connections are very likely OK.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Have you been equalizing the battery?
    Forklift batteries NEED to be equalized regularly. I would also look at what the charging recommendations are for your battery I charge my 24 volt battery at 29.2 or 29.4 volts, and equalize at 31.6. 

    From your spec's, it appears you have a 1650 watt array charging your "...forklift and diesel locomotive batteries". Do you have a single battery or do you have 2 groups of batteries? 1650 watt array is pretty small for any 24 volt forklift battery. I don't have a hug battery at about 660 amp hour (GB battery rated at 510 amp hour at 6 hr rate) and use a 4000 watt array to charge it.

    I would certainly increase the charging voltage.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    mike95490 said:
    If you are able to get power out of the battery to run an inverter, the connections are very likely OK.

    The cables that run to the inverter are quite literally built into it.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #12
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    Has anyone ever seen connections for splicing into forklift battery lugs? Seem like everything I try has a finite life span.
    Something like this would be ideal. Can't find one though:   Forklift uses 2/0 connectors - Anderson SB350 I believe.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Wheelman55
    Wheelman55 Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Use a flat blade screwdriver to release the springs in the connectors. You’ll then be able to see how the cables were crimped together into the contacts. 

    I’m guessing that you’ll be able to make your own if you’ve got the right crimp tool. 
    Off-Grid in Terlingua, TX
    5,000 watt array - 14 CS 370 watt modules. HZLA horizontal tracker. Schneider: XW6048NA+, Mini PDP, MPPT 80-600, SCP. 390ah LiFeP04 battery bank - 3 Discover AES 42-48-6650 48 volt 130ah LiFePO4 batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Photowhit said:
    Have you been equalizing the battery?
    Forklift batteries NEED to be equalized regularly. I would also look at what the charging recommendations are for your battery I charge my 24 volt battery at 29.2 or 29.4 volts, and equalize at 31.6. 

    From your spec's, it appears you have a 1650 watt array charging your "...forklift and diesel locomotive batteries". Do you have a single battery or do you have 2 groups of batteries? 1650 watt array is pretty small for any 24 volt forklift battery. I don't have a hug battery at about 660 amp hour (GB battery rated at 510 amp hour at 6 hr rate) and use a 4000 watt array to charge it.

    I would certainly increase the charging voltage.

    Good point. The default charge setting on the Renogy is for AGM batteries. Now charging at a significantly higher voltage. Going to take a few days to bring the voltage high enough to do an equalization.

    The diesel locomotive batteries wound up just being big starter batteries and too many have since  expired. I should redo my sig line - someday.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Wheelman55 said:
    Use a flat blade screwdriver to release the springs in the connectors. You’ll then be able to see how the cables were crimped together into the contacts. 

    I’m guessing that you’ll be able to make your own if you’ve got the right crimp tool. 

    Should be able to take the Anderson connections apart and make my own splitter - won't be quite as nice looking as pictured though. They almost had to have removed a lot of material to get two cables into one lug.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Thom
    Thom Solar Expert Posts: 196 ✭✭✭
    #16
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    Can you use custom values with your charge controller?


    Off grid since 1984. 430w of panel, 300w suresine , 4 gc batteries 12v system, Rogue mpt3024 charge controller , air breeze windmill, Mikita 2400w generator . Added 2@ 100w panel with a midnight brat 
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #17
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    No. It is not a "high end" CC.

    EDIT: It claims to automatically go into Equalization Mode for two hours when battery voltage drops to a certain level. Perhaps explaining the high charging voltage I found earlier. Which has since dropped to normal levels. Even if it works - the voltage level is too low by most accepted standards. Especially for a very tall forklift battery I would think.

    Looks like I may have to charge this battery from indoors using the 2/0 cables that also go to the inverter. Far from ideal but all of my outdoor connections have eventually failed. Between very high winds and goats - nothing is impervious. Goats knock everything over - as well as chew on everything. But they do eat tumbleweeds which I have an abundance of.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
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    According to this I can co-opt the cables that run to the inverter - also charging the battery via the indoor 2/0 cables. Fairly standard set up though some "purists" will surely disagree.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    softdown said:
    According to this I can co-opt the cables that run to the inverter ...
    Shouldn't be any problem, Inverter/chargers are only connected to the battery bank with one set of cables...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
    · Share on Twitter

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