The world is watching California open the way for the development of clean electricity

kimixiong522kimixiong522 Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15 ✭✭
Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill that puts California on an ambitious path: --Using 100% clean electricity by 2045. The measure also speeds up the renewable target already in place to 50% by 2025 and 60% by 2030.

Comments

  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 822 ✭✭✭✭
    Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill that puts California on an ambitious path: --Using 100% clean electricity by 2045. The measure also speeds up the renewable target already in place to 50% by 2025 and 60% by 2030.
    That's a mistake.  Goals of 50%?  60%?  75%?  Great.  But getting to that 100% will be far, far harder (and far less valuable) than those other goals.  Our money is better spent in other ways.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,325 admin
    Well, that will be ~25 years after he is out of office (Gov Brown is termed out and will be "retired" in a few months).

    Our last "experience" with California Laws on Utility (de)Regulation was in 2000-2001. I can imagine that this next stuff to hit the fan in 2025-2045 will be just as interesting.

    Usually this will start with California buying power from other states/countries (Hydro from Canada and Washington state, etc.)... Meaning California is not sustainable... Just another wealth transfer.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mcnutt13579mcnutt13579 Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    Here is an idea: let the people be free to do what they want with their power instead of saddling them with another heavy-handed department of whatever with salaries higher than 90% of the people they rule over.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Way before the energy laws hit, the mandatory daily personal water consumption is going to get us. $50 gal day.  No Baths.  State wide it's going to save -   wait for it  -- less than 1% of the states total use.   At the cost of new water meters to "properly record" the daily usage, and new (electronic) water appliances, to not waste a drop of precious water.  And a camel's nose in everybody's tent to make sure there is no cheating.
      More water would be saved if the cities and water districts fixed the leaky pipes in the infrastructure, but that does not put electronic monitoring into every household.

    https://californiapolicycenter.org/permanent-water-rationing-coming-california/

    excerpt:         But how much water would actually be saved, for $47 billion? According to the most authoritative study available on current indoor water consumption, the average Californians uses 62 gallons per day. (ref. California Water Plan Update 2013 Chapter 3, page 12, 1st paragraph “Indoor Residential.”) This means that if California’s 40 million residents got their indoor water use down to 50 gallons per day from 62 gallons per day, it would save 537 thousand acre feet per year (0.54 million acre feet). This is a minute fraction, less than 1%, of California’s total water diversions for environmental, agricultural, and urban uses.
      AB 1668 is not about saving water. It’s about control. It’s about power and profit for special interests. 

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,325 admin
    Our water bills in ~8 years went from ~$1.25 per 100 cuft to almost $7.00 per 100 cuft (748 gallons per 100 cuft). Running around $100 per month for ~10 cuft per month (includes about 1/2 the bill for connection fees).

    Roughly, I am down to ~81 gallons per day per person (3 people in home), and that includes only a little bit of garden+potted plant watering (mown weeds are a landscaping choice?).

    This state is going nuts... Either too many people or too few (politicians are going for "both" as the answer).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,782 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
     Either too many people or too few (politicians are going for "both" as the answer)
    Infested with humans...
    Here is an idea: let the people be free to do what they want with their power instead of saddling them with another heavy-handed department of whatever with salaries higher than 90% of the people they rule over.
    Again, infested with humans...

    In the end, we must have politicians willing to make reasonable hard choices. In general we as individuals will make choices based on our immediate needs. Basically whatever is cheaper. Likely 80+% of the population and power companies would just burn coal...

    Reasonable government officials are needed to look long term and say, well even if we insist on scrubbers, coal will create too many problems, and tax that base to make other options cheaper for the individual.

    ….of course I'm a fatalist, our officials don't have the will, or again the people don't have the will to elect people who can make those hard choices while we rapidly climb over the hill of 'peak oil' and other resources.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CA obviously has far more water than they need, as so much is exported (in the form of lettuce, almonds, etc.).
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    CA obviously has far more water than they need, as so much is exported (in the form of lettuce, almonds, etc.).
    You are right but the farmers are now taking the water from the ground by drilling wells. The water that they use to get from the SF bay delta and other places is being sent into the ocean. The environmentalist are trying to save things that do not matter. They say the Delta must be saved. The Delta was actually man made and so it all is flawed logic.

    Meanwhile the CA central valley floor is sinking from all the new wells and this huge aquifer is being destroyed. 

    Up here in the Sierra life is unchanged as we get the water source before it can be drained into the ocean. We have the same number of people here as 20 years ago as there are no jobs. Mostly just blue skies and wildfires in summer. Been that way since the dawn of time.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Well, that will be ~25 years after he is out of office (Gov Brown is termed out and will be "retired" in a few months).

    Our last "experience" with California Laws on Utility (de)Regulation was in 2000-2001. I can imagine that this next stuff to hit the fan in 2025-2045 will be just as interesting.

    Usually this will start with California buying power from other states/countries (Hydro from Canada and Washington state, etc.)... Meaning California is not sustainable... Just another wealth transfer.

    -Bill
    Governor Moonbeam is going offgrid. I know the guy who built his power system. He definitely has a back-up Genset  ;)  

    --Dave

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,325 admin
    Government is the poster boy (person?) live now, pay later... Virtually anything you look at in the US (and California) is a Pyramid/Ponzi scheme somewhere. Using every financial and legal trick there is to put the consequences as far into the future as possible (after the next election, after "they retire", etc.).

    https://money.howstuffworks.com/ponzi-scheme3.htm

    Why there is an election in a week (100% vote by mail in our area)--Tends to make me a little be more paranoid/depressed than usual.

    -Bill  :#
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The people in Sacramento would not be there if they did not know what they are doing....
    Don't let it get to you, but I would also tell you not to save the good wine. Drink it tonight!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 822 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Our water bills in ~8 years went from ~$1.25 per 100 cuft to almost $7.00 per 100 cuft (748 gallons per 100 cuft). Running around $100 per month for ~10 cuft per month (includes about 1/2 the bill for connection fees).

    Roughly, I am down to ~81 gallons per day per person (3 people in home), and that includes only a little bit of garden+potted plant watering (mown weeds are a landscaping choice?).
    That's the right way to do it.  Charge what it costs for water, including all those billion dollar Delta projects and repairs for parts of the state that are sinking due to overuse.  If someone wants to "save the poor!" or something then make the first 10 gallons a day free and charge market prices for the rest of it.  The market will quickly drive conservation.

    When I ride to work I pass half a dozen office buildings whose sprinklers are sending hundreds of gallons of water a day into storm drains.  Want to stop that?  Charge them for what the water is worth.  Then they will suddenly decide that it's more cost effective to fix the sprinkler systems.

    (Here in San Diego we have another option - recycled water, which is taken from sewage, and used for irrigation.  Almost no one uses it.  Price water more accurately and that would change, fast.)
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭✭
    Here on Catalina Island we have two desalination plants supplying most of our potable water. Also we have a salt water system for toilets. Great idea, except the salt water goes into our sewer system and causes problems with that part of our infrastructure.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 822 ✭✭✭✭
    Here on Catalina Island we have two desalination plants supplying most of our potable water. Also we have a salt water system for toilets. Great idea, except the salt water goes into our sewer system and causes problems with that part of our infrastructure.
    Another good idea.  I'd add that recycled water would be a great replacement for salt water, and could serve as water for flushing toilets, irrigation and clothes washing.  (It's actually completely safe to drink, but people have superstitions about that sort of thing.)   The cost would be 2x the distribution piping.

    I guess with salt water the question comes down to - is it more expensive to maintain the system and/or go to all plastic or stainless, or is it more expensive to make more fresh water? 

    Here in San Diego we just opened a big desalination plant that's supplying about 10% of our water.  One of the nice things about this type of plant (reverse osmosis) is that it runs on pressure.  So you can build a water tower to provide the pressure, then pump salt water when power is cheap (i.e. solar during the day, or at midnight when the grid is oversupplied by conventional generation.)
Sign In or Register to comment.