Power wall

PluckaPlucka Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭
What is the smallest power wall on the market and its price

Comments

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,765 ✭✭✭✭
    My understanding is they aren't sold by themselves only installed.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 2,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's my understanding as well, basic system Power Wall 2, 7Kw is $5900, + $700 for supporting hardware, + $800-$2000 installation charge, not including any electrical modifications, taxes or permit costs. Not  mentioned is service costs, I'm sure to stay within warranty, any service would have to be peformed by a registered dealer.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    900W  3 × 300W No name brand Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal as a backup system. 
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergencies and welding.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭
    The Powerwall 2 is 13.5 KWH usable storage here in North America but mcgivors data is good about installation.
    It is listed for grid only and they claim an offgrid model is in the works. They have had that claim for 3 years now.
    One of my wrench buddies is a dealer and we have brainstormed how to use one offgrid sans warranty.

    The model 2 really is a deal at that price except for the offgrid warranty part. Most LFP batteries are twice that cost.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • southforksouthfork Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
     Powerwall can recharge from your solar power system and has the potential to run your home indefinitely? From Home Depot web site on the sales of powerwall. What's the story here it will work during an outage but how long? 
     24 solar world 285 watt panels with 24 Enphase 250 s ground mount grid tied .                                                                
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How long? As long as you use less than available solar + battery capacity + system losses?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes how long?  You can always give Elon more money up front and get 2 or more....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • southforksouthfork Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    Estragon said:
    How long? As long as you use less than available solar + battery capacity + system losses?
    Home Depot's sales person said about 7 plus days ? the cost is high but it would be nice to have power too pump water during a fire. I have a generator but fuel could be a problem in a disaster. They also claimed the powerwall would work with my Enphase grid tied system ? But in order to get more info I will need to sign up for a sales call.
     24 solar world 285 watt panels with 24 Enphase 250 s ground mount grid tied .                                                                
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
    southfork said:
     Powerwall can recharge from your solar power system and has the potential to run your home indefinitely? From Home Depot web site on the sales of powerwall. What's the story here it will work during an outage but how long? 
    Sort of and no.  You can "charge from solar" but that's because your existing solar inverter generates AC, and the Powerwall takes in AC.  As long as the power generated and the power used by the Powerwall to charge are equal you can claim "charging from solar."  But there's no direct link.

    You can't run your home indefinitely.  There's no 'hooks' to allow AC coupling, and there's no option to do DC connection (i.e. direct connect to solar.)  So once the grid goes out you can't use solar.

    You can run an average efficient home (~12kwhr/day) for about a day before the battery dies.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭✭
    southfork said:
    Home Depot's sales person said about 7 plus days ? the cost is high but it would be nice to have power too pump water during a fire. I have a generator but fuel could be a problem in a disaster. They also claimed the powerwall would work with my Enphase grid tied system ? But in order to get more info I will need to sign up for a sales call.
    And last week that sales person was flipping burgers at Tommy Tomaines.  Most homes would get less than 24 hours out of the single wall.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • southforksouthfork Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    southfork said:
    Home Depot's sales person said about 7 plus days ? the cost is high but it would be nice to have power too pump water during a fire. I have a generator but fuel could be a problem in a disaster. They also claimed the powerwall would work with my Enphase grid tied system ? But in order to get more info I will need to sign up for a sales call.
    And last week that sales person was flipping burgers at Tommy Tomaines.  Most homes would get less than 24 hours out of the single wall.
    This is what I found on Tesla's web site. Powerwall can detect an outage, disconnect from the grid, and automatically restore power to your home in a fraction of a second. You will not even notice that the power went out. Your lights and appliances will continue to run without interruption. If you have solar and Powerwall, then solar energy will continue to power your home and recharge Powerwall. Without Powerwall, solar will shut down during an outage. Claims 7 days or more this is why I came over here looking for the truth. 
     24 solar world 285 watt panels with 24 Enphase 250 s ground mount grid tied .                                                                
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭✭
    If TESLA is able to do that, it is a game changer!,..... The Power Wall mainly carriers the house through the night  They seem to be figuring in an average arrays output and the Power wall and batt bank work in tandem...??


     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 3,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Leaving the coupling with Enphase thing aside for the time being, how long you can go in a grid outage comes down to arithmetic. Solar can charge the powerwall and supply loads at a rate of X watts for Y time, depending on array size, weather, etc. At night, the array supplies zero watts.

    If your power needs are low enough, the solar array is big enough, and the powerwall has enough capacity, you could go indefinitely without grid power. Some of us live off-grid, and do exactly that.

    A good starting point would be to figure out what electrical loads you would really need/want to run in a disaster, and for how long. For someone to claim a system will last for 7 days or more without doing the arithmetic is like me saying my piece of string is long enough.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • southforksouthfork Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    Ok I watched the whole video and I think I heard that it won't work if the grid is down ? But maybe the U.S. version is different ?
     24 solar world 285 watt panels with 24 Enphase 250 s ground mount grid tied .                                                                
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭
    It will not charge yet but it will work until empty. ! unless you open it up!  Elon won't like that and no warranty.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
    southfork said:
    mike95490 said:
    southfork said:
    Home Depot's sales person said about 7 plus days ? the cost is high but it would be nice to have power too pump water during a fire. I have a generator but fuel could be a problem in a disaster. They also claimed the powerwall would work with my Enphase grid tied system ? But in order to get more info I will need to sign up for a sales call.
    And last week that sales person was flipping burgers at Tommy Tomaines.  Most homes would get less than 24 hours out of the single wall.
    This is what I found on Tesla's web site. Powerwall can detect an outage, disconnect from the grid, and automatically restore power to your home in a fraction of a second. You will not even notice that the power went out. Your lights and appliances will continue to run without interruption. If you have solar and Powerwall, then solar energy will continue to power your home and recharge Powerwall. Without Powerwall, solar will shut down during an outage. Claims 7 days or more this is why I came over here looking for the truth. 
    Yep, that's a great claim.  Sounds awesome!  But as always the devil is in the details.

    The Powerwall contains a bidirectional inverter and a big battery.   So let's say you buy one to complement your existing solar power system.   You find a very good deal and sign up for it.  Powerwall is installed and commissioned, and you get a sexy app on your phone that shows power flows.  It shows the power flows from battery, solar and grid, and they change dynamically.  You can even charge during the day from solar and discharge at night!  Great!

    Then the power goes out for a day and your house goes dark. The battery is still charged - you _know_ it's charged, and the light is on, but there's no power.

    You call the installer guy.

    "Yeah, well, you got the special deal.  To give you real backup power we'd need to install a subpanel and move all your critical loads to that.  That's a lot of work.  We can do that but it's going to be another thousand."

    "I don't want just critical loads - I want to power my whole home, like it says in the ads!"

    "OK, well, we can move all the loads except the solar to the subpanel.  But that's going to be more than a thousand."

    So you pay the $$$ to move all the loads to the subpanel.

    Then the power goes out again.  This time, you have power for your home!  But the display shows the solar generating nothing, even though the sun is out.  You call the installer back again.

    "Yeah, well, see, the solar is tied to the grid on the main panel; that's how we have to do it.  So you can't charge from solar when the power is out.  Power has to be on for that to work."

    "But the ad said that . . . ."

    "You might want to give Solar Experts Inc a call.  I think they have a way to do that, but it's not normal."

    So you call them.  They tell you that there is a way, using AC coupling - provided your inverter and the Powerwall are compatible.  To do that they are going to have to install yet more gear, specifically a big relay that will disconnect the solar power when the battery is close to fully charged, along with some specialized control gear.  So you pay even more $$$ for that.

    Then you have another blackout and the system works - and it charges from solar.

    So all of that is doable.  But I've seen three Powerwall installations so far, and none of them were AC coupled, and only one of them had a subpanel for backup loads.  Make sure you know what you are getting.  (And it's pretty much a guarantee that if you get a "great deal" on a Powerwall it's not going to include all that other stuff.)
  • southforksouthfork Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    I'm just going to buy a drum of gas and some stabilizer and wait and see what they come up with next .
     24 solar world 285 watt panels with 24 Enphase 250 s ground mount grid tied .                                                                
  • petertearaipetertearai Solar Expert Posts: 365 ✭✭✭
    so      is the power wall set up for off grid  now ?
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . victron battery monitor . 24 volts 450 ah surette batterys . off grid  holiday home 
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 2,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I know, YouTube videos are for the most part bogus, but this one is very informative about using the Powerwall in off-grid mode, there are 3 parts which describe in detail the problems encountered, this doesn't go into the contractual agreement on install, but focuses on what happens when the grid is absent for an extended period of time.  


    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    900W  3 × 300W No name brand Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal as a backup system. 
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergencies and welding.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭
    I think that U-tube is one of the absolute best things out there. If you sign in with an account it is pretty hard to not just really like all the features. Without an account it is a wasteland.

    When I responded to this previously we took the powerwall2  apart and just used the battery with an XW and some mppts. It works great but no warranty. It is still working just fine and easily stores 13kwh.

    I never found his video #3, did you Ivor?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 2,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2 #22
    @DaveAngelini  video #3


    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    900W  3 × 300W No name brand Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal as a backup system. 
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergencies and welding.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭✭
    THX !  Number 3 was very useful for someone who really needed this system with all of it's quirks to work more than a day. Tesla has had on their battery web page for over 3 years now that they intend to release an offgrid model.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • PluckaPlucka Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭
    Missed some of the video I was running around looking for what I thought was a bird chirping in my van
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    But it wasn't a bird? 
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2018 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • PluckaPlucka Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭
    Yes it was a bird but on his video.Sounded like it was in my van
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