Basic Begginer Setup - Ontario, Canada

Qes
Qes Registered Users Posts: 5
Greetings everyone!
My name is Kevin.
I'm looking to put together some sort of camping solar energy setup for one of my best friends birthday gift.

Here is what I know so far.

1. The cheapest solar panels I have found are around 80 cents (Canadian) per watt and I am looking at 1X 265 Watt panel.
2. AGM batteries seem to be the way to go, but with only one 265 watt panel, do I really need an AGM battery for faster charging?
3. I don't know what the power drain or amps used will be.  I am guessing the system will be used to power small electronic devices or to charge them (laptops, phones, radios, etc...)

So, really, my questions are:

1.  Is 80 cents a good price per watt for solar panels in the Ontario, Canada region?
2. Should I go with an expensive 12 volt AGM battery in the range of 100 amp/hours? Or cheaper Marine deep cycle batteries since this is a beginner setup and the system won't be used often.
3. And if I got with an AGM battery, is this the cheapest charge controller I can find:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PS-30-MORNINGSTAR-PROSTAR-12-24-VOLT-30-AMP-SOLAR-CONTROLLER-/221452404784 ?

Thank you so much in advance for your time and help!
Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Cheers,
Kevin H.


Comments

  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Kevin, welcome aboard. The cheapest panel is not nesesarally the one needed, in the description a 265W panel is in all likelihood a grid tie 60 cell panel, which wouldn't work with the charge controller linked as it is PWM, a MPPT would be required, which is more expensive. The larger panels come generally in 2 configurations, 60 cell and 72 cell, the latter is a true 24V nominal panel, but since it appears to be a 12V system, perhaps using 12V nominal 36 cell panels is the way to go, they tend to be a little more expensive but cheaper to ship, if that's a concern.

    1. Cost wise, anything in Canada under a buck is a good deal :p even if it is just a watt, I'm from Canada by the way, but that seems to be the median price at this point in time.

    2. Use a deep cycle battery not a marine they are designed for the job...Ah is dependent on load...panels are dependent on Ah so no advice given, for those values 

    3.That controller is not the cheapest available, but it is a good quality basic PWM , you could do a lot worse for less $, but I wouldn't. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also, a 265w panel will be roughly 1m x 2m and weigh ~20kg. That's ok if mounted more or less permanently to a trailer or whatever, but would be unwieldy for tent camping.

    Shipping on smaller 12v panels is cheaper than on less than pallet quantities of larger ones, so you may want to check the likes of Amazon.ca for pricing. Price per watt tends to be higher, but that's offset some by being able to use a less expensive PWM controller as Mcgivor noted.

    0.80/watt for bigger panels in small quantities is pretty good. Sometimes installers will have an odd panel or 2 left over from a pallet order and may sell the leftover cheap, but obviously it's a question of timing.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even though he's your friend, I'd use a cheap, marine-style battery. Easy and painless to replace when it's killed, less than $100 most likely.
      If you are happy with the large 265w panel, look at the Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT
    https://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-mppt/
    you are a little overpaneled with it, but you are not going to have optimum alignment all the time either.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Qes
    Qes Registered Users Posts: 5
    Hello everyone!
    Thanks so much for entertaining my questions/curiosity. 
    I know you get a lot of people coming asking instead of giving, so thanks for your time!

    I didn't know they were so big!
    Now found a 250 watt panel for 0.75 cents per watt.

    Well my friend likes the outdoors, but they also one day want to go off grid (with a survivalist mentality).
    The solar panel is sort of a introduction, back up in case of a power outage to charge phones/laptops, and as a motivator to get their social work masters degree done and get that property

    Thanks mcgivor and Estragon, maybe the 100 watt ones make more sense.  Perhaps two of those with a MPPT controller would do the job. 

    Hey thanks mike95490.  I might just go with the cheap marine battery though one day I would love to find a source for junk lithium cells from laptops for a solar setup and an electric VW rabbit pickup truck lol

    Cheers everyone!





  • Qes
    Qes Registered Users Posts: 5
    Hey again,

    Sorry, I found some 100 watt panels for sale on ebay canada.
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/382175969196

    But the voltage listed is 18 volts.  A google search said all 12 volt panels are 18 volts.  I am so confused lol.
    Can the MorningStar 20 amp SunSaver control the charge from these 18 volt panels? 

    Worst case scenario, I'm driving across the border to walmart for these:
    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Renogy-100W-12V-Solar-Panel-Polycrystalline-Off-Grid-Battery-Charging-for-RV-Boat-Cabin-Applications/180504141?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227042084012&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=115586517528&wl4=pla-172654644048&wl5=2840&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=180504141&wl13=&veh=sem

    Thanks in advance for your time and help people!
    Cheers,
    Kevin


  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    12 Volts is the 'nominal' voltage as is a 12 V battery that when fully charged and rested for ~ 4 hrs will read 13.2 volts (2,2v per cell) and the charge rate could be as high as 14.4V
    the relationship is 12v / 17 - 18V MPPT
    24V / ~ 35 V
    48V / ~70V
    there may be some 24V PV's but they are like hens teeth, beware of  GT (Grid Tie) panels that are in the 30 - 32V range, they will not be able to fully charge a 24v battery...
    Look for a local solar shop and check out their prices, there may be a deal or 2...  shipping can ruin a 'good price' on just one panel.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    12 Volts is the 'nominal' voltage as is a 12 V battery that when fully charged and rested for ~ 4 hrs will read 13.2 volts (2,2v per cell) and the charge rate could be as high as 14.4V
    the relationship is 12v / 17 - 18V MPPT
    24V / ~ 35 V
    48V / ~70V
    there may be some 24V PV's but they are like hens teeth, beware of  GT (Grid Tie) panels that are in the 30 - 32V range, they will not be able to fully charge a 24v battery...
    Look for a local solar shop and check out their prices, there may be a deal or 2...  shipping can ruin a 'good price' on just one panel.

    These values I believe we're supposed to be for PWM, having given the reference to grid tie panels not being suitable.

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017 #9
    @Qes
    Yes, the Morningstar Sunsaver 20 will work fine for these panels. Be sure to wire the panels in parallel. 
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.