Induction cooker

inetdog

Re: Induction cooker

ChrisOlson wrote: »

I've looked at the controls and never been able to figure out how to get it to come on, and I've never been right there to measure how much power that "browning element" pulls when she uses it.

The two choices for standard ovens that I have seen are:
1. Turn the cooking control to "Broil" or "Brown" or
2. Turn the temperature control to "Broil".

I am guessing that this browning element comes on along with the regular convection heat though, so it must be more complicated than that.

ChrisOlson

Re: Induction cooker

inetdog wrote: »

I am guessing that this browning element comes on along with the regular convection heat though, so it must be more complicated than that.

Yes, it does. It has to be programmed to come on at the right time if something is being cooked that needs browning. I have never been able to catch it when she uses that feature to measure the power draw with an ammeter. I'm curious if the convection is running at the same time as the browning element, or if the convection heating stops when the browning element comes on. Or maybe the convection heating stops but the convection fan stays running. That's what I don't know.

The convection oven is also more energy efficient than a conventional oven. My wife's range has a computer in it and will convert normal baking temperatures and time to convection. Convection takes lower temperature and less time to bake the same food.
--
Chris

vtmaps

Re: Induction cooker

ChrisOlson wrote: »

The convection oven is also more energy efficient than a conventional oven.

Is the oven insulated? Is the oven vented? --vtMaps

BB.

Re: Induction cooker

On average, you can run the oven 25F cooler and items cook 10-20% faster... The "industrial" convection ovens have much higher capacity fans than I have seen in a typical home convection oven.

The industrial fans (and I had one counter top convection oven) would blow the sliced vegetables and spices all over the inside of the pan/oven... I assume those faster air flows would dramatically increase heat transfer.

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Induction cooker

I will relate my own experiences with different types of range here. I may be unique in having used all four, electric, convection, propane, and natural gas, in the same area and time span.

By far the conventional electric was the worst in terms of operating cost. Food preparation was not that good either, as the cycling on both burners and oven causes some pretty large swings in temperature.

That oven, however, I would judge to be superior to the convection unit. There was no perceivable advantage in circulating the air (heated by conventional elements) within the oven. In fact it tended to dry out the exterior of baked goods before the interior was fully cooked.

The propane range is a simple one; cheapest we could find. Pilot ignition and basic burners with a conventional oven. No problem using it at all; works for everything very well and does not consume inordinate amounts of fuel.

The natural gas unit is very good, although I consider the electronic controls and igniters to be a pain and repair waiting to happen. Cooking quality is top notch for burners and oven, no matter what you put in the oven.

To make a blanket statement that one type is better than any other is foolish, as much will depend on where (operating costs) and how (quality of cooking) it is used. People shouldn't ignore the different choices available at all, but consider them carefully. If you are used to using a particular type and are satisfied with the results it gives you may want to stay with that. Otherwise you could be up against a period of adjustment in using a different unit that may never perform to your satisfaction. I've yet to see any guarantee on that from a manufacturer or retailer. And when you're talking about investing hundreds of dollars in an appliance it is fiscally prudent to get it right the first time.

One rule to always remember: fancy, expensive kitchen gadgets don't make the chef any better, but they can make him/her poorer.

BB.

Re: Induction cooker

My in-laws are just about to remodel their (city) home... And we started looking at "higher end" appliances vs the basic consumer. The high end stuff broke just as often (if not more often, and parts/service was scary expensive, & more difficult to obtain), appliances lasted just about as long, and cost 5x as much as the consumer stuff.

I am with Marc/Cariboocoot on this one. Check the economics of the solution (both capital, service, and fuel) costs and go with which makes the most sense.

I would add that if you are powering from a battery bank, you have to add something like $0.30-$0.50 per kWH just for the cost of cycle wear on the battery bank. If you are doing most of your cooking when the sun is up--You may be getting "closer" to free power (solar panels and AC inverter life costs) vs having to pay for fuel.

ChrisOlson

Re: Induction cooker

vtmaps wrote: »

Is the oven insulated? Is the oven vented? --vtMaps

The oven is insulated. But I'm not sure how it's vented. The only hole in the oven is the grille with the convection fan behind it. And it takes a real long time - like at least an hour - before any of the heat from inside of it seems to get out to the room. So it might not even have a vent in it, I don't know.

My wife makes these turkey roasts in it sometimes. I think they cook at 350F for like 2.5 hours. The preheat takes about 10 minutes. And then the heat maintain will cycle on and off for the next hour or so. But I've noticed that the heat maintain rarely comes on during the last hour of cooking those turkey roasts. It just take the first hour just to get all the mass in the oven up to temp, and once it's there the oven takes no more energy for the rest of the cooking job.

It's kind of the same thing with our little "plate" type induction cooker. Our big range cooktop will maintain a set temp by infinitely adjusting the power to the Litz coils. So if Kristin sets the temp to 400F on the "burner" for cooking pancakes it might run at full power (2.2 kW) to get the griddle up to 400F, but then it drops the power draw to maintain it.

Our little induction "plate" does that, but it does it by simply cycling the Litz coil on and off as necessary to maintain the temp. The way the big range does it is a lot nicer for your inverter. With the little "plate" it might slam a 1,000 watt load in and out several times a minute as it maintains temp. With the big range the load might be at 2 kW while the thermal mass in the griddle comes up to temp, then the load smoothly drops off only about 375-400 watts to maintain it.

It's interesting - I was watching our tablet computer (from the ComBox) this morning while Kristin was cooking breakfast. She uses a cast iron griddle for cooking pancakes. The big induction element on the range was "idling" at about 345 watts to hold the temp at 400. She poured batter on the griddle and it caused a slight temp drop in the surface of the griddle - the power to the element smoothly ramped up to about 580 for a bit, then as the batter cooked and absorbed heat it went back down to about 350 watts.

There's some serious high tech electronics in that induction range
--
Chris

solar_dave

Re: Induction cooker

We cooked with an electric range for the last 15 years in this house. About 2 years ago the old range oven door hinge failed and getting a replacement seemed extremely expensive, so we bought a ceramic top electric range, much to my protests. Last year we remodeled the kitchen, and had a 6 burner Kitchen Aid Nat Gas cook top installed and a wall (cabinet) mount convection oven/microwave. The wife whined incessantly during the remodel about having a gas cook top installed until she cooked on it for about a month, then whining stopped. About a month ago she finally admitted she now loves the Nat Gas cook top and I was right, but it was like pulling teeth to get that out of her.

I really wanted to use the Nat Gas because we were paying the connection fees for the gas and it was really expensive per therm when you only use about 3-4 therms per month. I also wanted it off the on-peak consumption of electric, that is when most of the cooking takes place. In reality our consumption didn't go up much but the cooking experience was so much better on Nat Gas.

BTW anyone want to get a slightly & lightly used glass topped range really cheap? LOL

ChrisOlson

Re: Induction cooker

BB. wrote: »

I would add that if you are powering from a battery bank, you have to add something like $0.30-$0.50 per kWH just for the cost of cycle wear on the battery bank.

Using an induction cooktop does not put any more cycle wear on your batteries than your HDTV does. You watch two movies on your HDTV and you used more energy than an induction cooktop uses to cook two meals for two people. Guarantee it. I can definitively demonstrate it for anybody that don't believe it.
--
Chris

BB.

Re: Induction cooker

I agree--It is a cost of using any kWH from the battery bank (TV or Induction Cook Top). Just saying discharging a battery bank does have its costs--And why your use of a very efficient diesel genset+generator support is such a neat operational mode... Cost of fuel is mostly(?) offset by avoiding battery cycling wear&tear.

However, I am still waiting for my natural gas powered TV.

-Bill

Cariboocoot

Re: Induction cooker

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Using an induction cooktop does not put any more cycle wear on your batteries than your HDTV does. You watch two movies on your HDTV and you used more energy than an induction cooktop uses to cook two meals for two people. Guarantee it. I can definitively demonstrate it for anybody that don't believe it.
--
Chris

Except that using the cook top would be in addition to the TV consumption, not in place of it.

They are still high Watt units (at least on start up) meaning every time it cycles on it will demand hundreds of Watts. Your TV sure doesn't do that. As such you need a battery bank capable of handling the high Watt 'hit' and providing the additional Watt hours consumed.

There's still no free lunch. Or dinner. Or even breakfast.

ChrisOlson

Re: Induction cooker

BB. wrote: »

However, I am still waiting for my natural gas powered TV.

They build them natural gas powered HDTV's every day now. Natural gas is the "future" in electrical power generation, if you can believe what some claim.

Cariboocoot wrote: »

They are still high Watt units (at least on start up) meaning every time it cycles on it will demand hundreds of Watts. Your TV sure doesn't do that. As such you need a battery bank capable of handling the high Watt 'hit' and providing the additional Watt hours consumed.

Of course - but like others have noted here with relatively small systems, they are using electric with induction to cook so they don't have to buy propane. The nice timing thing with cooking is that it is usually done when you eat meals, which is usually during the day. So the battery actually very rarely takes a "hit" because you have incoming power that just goes direct to the inverter instead of to the battery when it is being used.

There's pros and cons to everything. But cheap solar has changed everything for off-grid folks compared to what we had 10 years ago. Today you can generate 4 kW of solar power during the day without breaking the bank. 4 kW 10 years ago would cost a small fortune. So you're going find, at least with most of the off-grid people we know, that they have installed excess capacity just because it got so much cheaper than when we all started out 10 years ago that we can't resist buying it. Most of us full-time off-grid folks have sized our systems for the cloudy day and the short days in winter so we can survive. And when the sun shines we got so much power it's like what do you do with it?

Things have changed from what it was even 5 years ago for off-gridders.
--
Chris

Cariboocoot

Re: Induction cooker

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Of course - but like others have noted here with relatively small systems, they are using electric with induction to cook so they don't have to buy propane. The nice timing thing with cooking is that it is usually done when you eat meals, which is usually during the day. So the battery actually very rarely takes a "hit" because you have incoming power that just goes direct to the inverter instead of to the battery when it is being used.

--
Chris

Breakfast at my place: no sun on panels.
Lunch: full sun on panels.
Dinner: no sun on panels.

Doesn't sound as though it would work at my place at all. Unless I invested another $2,000 in panels and batteries just to run the cooker. I'll pass on that, thanks.

ChrisOlson

Re: Induction cooker

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Breakfast at my place: no sun on panels.
Lunch: full sun on panels.
Dinner: no sun on panels.

Doesn't sound as though it would work at my place at all. Unless I invested another $2,000 in panels and batteries just to run the cooker. I'll pass on that, thanks.

Well, I don't know that that's the perfect analysis of the situation. As noted in this thread there are many of off-gridders who have chosen it over propane. And the reasons are more varied. The primary being that many of us have already spent the $2,000 in panels so we get normal power on cloudy days, and on the average we now have excess power so we look for ways to use it and make our lives better. You're going to find that this is more and more of a common theme with full-time off-grid folks than it used to be.
--
Chris

Cariboocoot

Re: Induction cooker

For my situation it is the perfect analysis because that's what I have to deal with. This goes for everyone else; you can not just switch over to electric cooking in an off-grid situation without first having a system that can supply the power it requires. Period.

People are going to ignore my advice and then it will be more calls, e-mails, and PM's from people trying to get the extra power to run electric cooking out of their existing systems.

Chris, you seem to have the opinion that induction cooking is the solution for everyone. It is not.

ChrisOlson

Re: Induction cooker

Cariboocoot wrote: »

People are going to ignore my advice and then it will be more calls, e-mails, and PM's from people trying to get the extra power to run electric cooking out of their existing systems.

Chris, you seem to have the opinion that induction cooking is the solution for everyone. It is not.

You will not find where I said that.

This is the common theme for the whole thread:

silvertop wrote: »

We use electrical opportunity loads and conserve whenever we can. With the arrays at 4.8 KW (soon to be 6.4 KW) we have surplus most of the year. Why buy any propane if you don't need to?

In life there are people that drive the 2013 Dodge Hemi Challenger R/T. And there are people that drive the '74 VW Super Beetle. If you drive the Bug you shouldn't expect to be layin rubber for two city blocks in the first three gears.
--
Chris

Cariboocoot

Re: Induction cooker

ChrisOlson wrote: »

You will not find where I said that.

Said it? No. But it certainly is implicit in your attitude throughout this thread. Your derision of anyone with a different POV on the issue is not appreciated and will not be tolerated any longer.

niel

Re: Induction cooker

not everyone as he said all off gridders.

solarvic

Re: Induction cooker

My 2 cents. I live south of lake erie where there is a lot of cloudy weather. Grid tied and needed just a little more power and added a few more panels and and now overproduce just a little in optimum conditions. So this summer I didn,t need to skimp on air conditioning which I need because of my health. So I bought a few electric appliances to help me waste the power. Now I have 2 of the electric wall panels and an oilfilled heater to help me use the power when I don,t need air conditioning. Also in the late winter I bought one of those Max Burton induction hotplates which has lots of advantages over the gas burners on my range. First thing I noticed is you can thaw out frozen hamburger easier as there is a 150 degree setting. In the hot weather it will not heat up the house as much as the gas burner does. When I got it I had to buy new stainless pans. I was tired of using the nonstick pans as you are eating the pan literly. Someone mentioned the timer is useless which I don,t agree with their conclusion. Was cooking hamburger one day when I got called for an emergency. Left thinking I
turned the burner off. When I got back the skillet was covered on the bottom with black carbon. Well the timer turned it off before the pan got ruined. It was hard to clean but it did clean up nicely with Fast Orange hand cleaner. The best cleaner I have found for keeping my stainless ware clean and shiney. I do still use my gas range some for bakeing and cooking but try to use the Max Burton on a hot day or any other time I can use it. Would like to get another one sometime. I think its a personal choice if you would want one and probably the main reason to buy one is if you have excess power that you want to make use of. Solarvic

silvertop

Re: Induction cooker

Hello everyone from Mrs. Silver top

I cooked with our induction cooker today and want to let you know what I've discovered. You need to experiment with it. You can't just turn it on and think it will do the rest. We purchased a Sonya 100-1300 watt cooker. I cooked rice a roni. As you know generally you sauté with butter, browning the product, add water and simmer until done. Factory default on this unit is 700 watts at 210 degrees. I set it to 500 watts at 180 degrees to begin the browning process. As things began to brown, I then turned it to 300 watts at 180 degrees until I got the degree of browning I desired. At the point of adding the water and then the flavor pouch, I then turned it 700 watts @180 degrees to simmer until done. Since I had other things in other parts of the house to do, I then set my timer on the unit as well. Upon it's beeping, checked again ( it turns itself off upon completion of the timer cycle) reset it for a few minute more to get the consistency I wanted. During the whole time, this unit cycled between 300 to 824 watts, depending on which combination I chose. This was not a continuous draw; it would cycle on for about 15 seconds and then off for about a minute. This cooks the food fast and well and conservatively! Just today, I've recommended to our sound engineer for our band.

It was a rainy, cloudy day and did not deplete our battery reserves. (Afterwards, we watched 3 movies, and used more power . )
Everyone needs to be open to all forms of off grid appliances. Don't assume it won't work! Have a great day . Beth

niel

Re: Induction cooker

look people, nobody ever said it won't work or that you can't do that. this whole thing started because chris said that he speaks for all who are off grid that they all should do this (and he did in a pm to me say it), but i said they all can't as not all have systems that can accommodate the extra loads. it is fine to occasionally burn off extra summer watts or even winter watts if you have that much, but for him to say everybody off grid needs to use this exclusively will be giving all with smaller or marginal systems the idea this can be used exclusively all of the time with no problems. this just is not so. those with huge systems usually can use it exclusively, but even they will need to supplement at times which is fine if that's what they want to do. i don't care. make no mistake about it that if you have natural gas piped to your property that it is my contention that the induction plate is not worthwhile changing to and i grew up with electric and use gas in my adulthood. the electric is not cost effective no matter how efficient induction is over standard electric coils it will not compete with natural gas at this point except to use as a large load to burn off excess pv power one may have available at the time.

if the thread continues in this direction the thread will get locked. it has been allowed to continue to see if the direction will change and chris was warned about the direction too. i did not initiate the temporary ban, but i added to it for disruption to the forum and ignoring my warnings.

with that you will quit trying to convince all that they must switch to induction plates as it does not suit all people, only some people, and it may be a limited basis for some of them. to me it doesn't seem worth the expense as you can use a cheap electric plate just the same to burn off excess power available.

Photowhit

Re: Induction cooker

Mrs. Silvertop...

This makes no sense, if it will maintain 180 degrees at 300watts why would you switch it to 700watts to maintain the same 180 degrees?

Neither of mine have a wattage setting (NuWave and Tatung) so perhaps your seeing a temp setting?

Also by default, do you mean what temp the unit starts at?

silvertop

Re: Induction cooker

Hello,

With the lower wattage, it cycles off and on more frequently, cooking in smaller, but more frequent bursts of heat. When set at 700, it cooks at less frequent but longer bursts of heat. This definitely increases the heat in the pan. As for the default; when you turn it on, that is what is comes on as. ( 700 watts, 210 degrees).

In working through the different wattage and temp settings, you can have considerable combinations of heat and wattage usage, depending on your cooking needs. (some can be redundant). You don't have to use the default and you don't need to use a tremendous amount of energy to get the job done.

Photowhit

Re: Induction cooker

Sounds quite silly to me, once a temperature is reach, the liquids will not change temperature rapidly, unless your looking at minutes between cycles. It also would not be maintaining a temperature, perhaps it would have a wider range of temperatures it's holding? Like a thermostat that kicks on at 160 degrees and off at 190, vs one that kicks on at 175 and off at 182. Doesn't sound right, but I'll look into it.

Blackcherry04

Re: Induction cooker

I said way back in post #4 that I thought the Temperature control was a waste if you were paying extra to get one with it. I just see no way it could work under the glass top and through the bottom of the pan. Maybe it's just the Max Burton or maybe it's all of them. It could be there is a big lag in the swing or it's meant for some long term heating / warming situation, but everything sticks and burns when I have tried to use it in that mode. To be effective it needs a plug in probe to give the food temperature.

Cariboocoot

Re: Induction cooker

I think our resident physicist inetdog would confirm that the energy used is the same, whether at a low Wattage activated more frequently or a high Wattage activated less frequently. The only advantage to the choice would be reducing the current 'hit' on the system with the lower Wattage setting.

I have nothing on my off-grid system that consumes as much power at one time as one of these (1300 Watts max), nor would it be able to support such a load. People should investigate how one would relate to their system in particular, not just take it for granted that it would automatically save enough propane to be worth the investment.

techntrek

Re: Induction cooker

solarvic wrote: »

.... It was hard to clean but it did clean up nicely with Fast Orange hand cleaner. The best cleaner I have found for keeping my stainless ware clean and shiney....

Thanks for the suggestion. I love that stuff especially after an oil change session, but never considered it for the stainless stuff inside the house. Our usual solution is an inch of water in the bottom as it sits on the counter for a day and then lots of scrubbing. I'll have to go out to my garage and get the orange bottle next time...

techntrek

Re: Induction cooker

silvertop wrote: »

...In working through the different wattage and temp settings, you can have considerable combinations of heat and wattage usage, depending on your cooking needs. (some can be redundant).....

Good to know. I've considered one for our camper and there are amperage limitations at times if other things are running. The ability to set a max limit would be useful. It would be a backup for the stove in the house too (you can never have too many backups/options), so it would have more than one purpose.

niel

Re: Induction cooker

Photowhit wrote: »

Sounds quite silly to me, once a temperature is reach, the liquids will not change temperature rapidly, unless your looking at minutes between cycles. It also would not be maintaining a temperature, perhaps it would have a wider range of temperatures it's holding? Like a thermostat that kicks on at 160 degrees and off at 190, vs one that kicks on at 175 and off at 182. Doesn't sound right, but I'll look into it.

my theory is it is not temperature regulated at all as it has no way to accurately measure the temp, but it was more of an observation that at the point on the dial they had placed it at that they observed it eventually reached the 210 degree f most of the time. in other words it wouldn't be the temperature that is regulating the cooking, but the setting on the dial they observed usually put it at 210 degrees. it probably has a tolerance range on it like maybe +/-5 degrees or something. the clue to me was why 210 degrees and not 212 degrees for the boiling point that helped to lead me to my conclusion. add a fancy temp readout for that dial setting and wow people think there's a thermometer in it.

to add-most ovens have similar temperature markings on them be they gas or electric. they just fancified it by being digital.

silvertop

Re: Induction cooker

niel wrote: »

my theory is it is not temperature regulated at all as it has no way to accurately measure the temp, but it was more of an observation that at the point on the dial they had placed it at that they observed it eventually reached the 210 degree f most of the time. in other words it wouldn't be the temperature that is regulating the cooking, but the setting on the dial they observed usually put it at 210 degrees. it probably has a tolerance range on it like maybe +/-5 degrees or something. the clue to me was why 210 degrees and not 212 degrees for the boiling point that helped to lead me to my conclusion. add a fancy temp readout for that dial setting and wow people think there's a thermometer in it.

This 210 degree is just there starting benchmark ,they don't state that it is or is not boiling temp. I do believe that there is a probe under the glass top and that it can cycle on and off as adjusted. I think any probe under a surface has to have a temperature compensated adjustment for that glass . I think this is moot point as the many settings allow you to watch the food cook and adjust accordingly just as you would need to do if you had a gas stove. We have a commercial gas coffee roaster( all electric computer and power vents run on solar ) that has a temperature probe above the roasting chamber in the exhaust flow and it also has to be compensated because it is not in the roast chamber and it also does very well. We commercially roast and sell with this machine. That being said use what works best for you; some will use gas and will be very happy; some will use other forms of fuel ; lets all be kind and open minded. i have learned much here ; let's not discourage anyone .