Need help choosing a generator

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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #32
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    Sun Dog wrote: »
    Adjusting the AVR is slightly trickier as you are working around spinning parts. I just had my wife read off the voltage values as I made the adjustments.

    Just a note on that - I would recommend against adjusting the AVR with the generator running. There is hazardous voltage at the brushes that will effectively end your journey on this earth if you accidentally touch one. Just take the AVR off with the two screws, tweak the little adjustment screw a tiny amount (clockwise increases voltage, counterclockwise decreases voltage), put it back on, start the generator and see what you get. It's a lot safer than handling an ungrounded AVR that has high DC voltages flowing thru it.
    --
    Chris
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  • Sun Dog
    Sun Dog Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    #33
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Just a note on that - I would recommend against adjusting the AVR with the generator running. There is hazardous voltage at the brushes that will effectively end your journey on this earth if you accidentally touch one. Just take the AVR off with the two screws, tweak the little adjustment screw a tiny amount (clockwise increases voltage, counterclockwise decreases voltage), put it back on, start the generator and see what you get. It's a lot safer than handling an ungrounded AVR that has high DC voltages flowing thru it.
    --
    Chris

    Whoops, will keep that in mind for any future adjustments. Thanks Chris.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #34
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    So, Champion it is.

    I'll run it once a month or so for maintenance, but also to make sure it works.
    Sun Dog wrote: »
    It regularly goes on sale at CT for $200 off.

    That would be nice. How often does it go on sale?

    I need to buy it before I switch off-grid, which I plan to do as soon as the snow clears from the ground. Hopefully they put it on sale soon :D
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  • Sun Dog
    Sun Dog Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    #35
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Can't give you a number but if it I notice it on sale I will PM you.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #36
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    I intend to keep the generater in the (heated) garage, away from the elements, then when time comes, pull it out, plug it into a receptacle in the wall (need to install that), start it and let it run.

    Please give details of this receptacle.... I'm a bit worried that you are going to be using a 'suicide cord'. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #37
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Please give details of this receptacle.... I'm a bit worried that you are going to be using a 'suicide cord'.

    I'm going to use this receptacle.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #38
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    .....

    I think it's a good idea to weld a cap or silencer on the exhaust......

    Nope, too much back pressure. You could built a "tunnel" out of some 10" metal duct, and line it with fiberglass and metal hardware cloth, making a "glass pack muffler" to aim the exhaust into, but extending the pipe will ruin the engine.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    what's wrong with a flex pipe extension? Its no more than a long tail pipe and should not create a lot of back pressure.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #40
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    westbranch wrote: »
    what's wrong with a flex pipe extension? Its no more than a long tail pipe and should not create a lot of back pressure.

    Depending on the length, diameter and frequency of the sound waves from the engine's exhaust, a simple pipe can sometime increase exhaust pressure, decrease it, or make it louder. It's like the "stinger" on a two-stroke expansion chamber. They are precisely tuned to use the sound waves to create a vacuum on the engine's exhaust ports and improve cylinder scavenging and volumetric efficiency.

    So I would advise caution when welding any old pipe on an engine's exhaust system.

    Ideally, to limit the amount engineering you have to put into it, if you use a large diameter pipe and some sort of baffle (like the duct cap I used, showed in the photos of my gen enclosure project) you will not cause any adverse effects on the engine, and will make it quieter due to the baffle diffusing the sound waves. A muffler baffle can built many different ways - with fiberglass packing like somebody else mentioned - or a simple tube with many holes drilled in it does the trick. The vent cap I used has chisel cut holes in it and it works excellent.

    But just an open pipe extension can cause anything from a sharp "rap" (vacuum on the exhaust due to sound wave expansion when it hits the atmosphere) to more a "hissing" type sound (excessive exhaust pressure) from the sound waves "piling up" when they hit the atmosphere.
    --
    Chris
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #41
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Visited Canadian Tire. Just about any generator is on sale, except the Champion.

    Bough receptacle, wires, etc. Will wire everything up and wait until it goes on sale.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Visited Canadian Tire. Just about any generator is on sale, except the Champion.

    Bough receptacle, wires, etc. Will wire everything up and wait until it goes on sale.

    Typical that whatever you want isn't on sale.

    CT has good customer service though; they will sometimes look back a month and see if it was on sale and give it to you for that price, and they'll always give you a refund if it goes on sale within 30 days of your purchase. Not many stores will do that for you.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #43
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Actually they can look forward and tell you when the next sale will be too, but not the price of it , I guess TBD.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #44
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Visited Canadian Tire. Just about any generator is on sale, except the Champion.

    Bough receptacle, wires, etc. Will wire everything up and wait until it goes on sale.

    Is the sale price better than what you can get it for on Amazon? Although I suppose if you order on Amazon you have to pay the 15% tax to get it across the border. Not sure on that, but probably.
    --
    Chris
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #45
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Is the sale price better than what you can get it for on Amazon? Although I suppose if you order on Amazon you have to pay the 15% tax to get it across the border. Not sure on that, but probably.
    --
    Chris

    Plus duty, shipping, hassles, delays, and worst of all ... no Canadian Tire money!:cry:
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #46
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Thanks guys! I didn't know Canadian Tire was that good. I'll ask them.

    Amazon doesn't ship most of the things to Canada. There's Amazon.ca, but it has very few products and they're usually very expensive.
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #47
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Thanks guys! I didn't know Canadian Tire was that good. I'll ask them.

    Amazon doesn't ship most of the things to Canada. There's Amazon.ca, but it has very few products and they're usually very expensive.

    Has more to do with the individual company than Amazon. If the company that is registered with Amazon ships to Canada, then it will be on Amazon.ca. I noticed that there is more listed on there than there used to be.

    I'm not impressed with CT's return policy. They can be really sticky about returns, whereas, other retailers will take a product back no questions asked, in some, if not many cases. Also, I know a fellow that sued a particular CT store over a defective product, as they wouldn't give him his money back. He sued the store and won the case. This had more to do with a particular CT store though, which was mismanaged. The store is now being run by a new owner.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #48
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    northerner wrote: »
    Has more to do with the individual company than Amazon. If the company that is registered with Amazon ships to Canada, then it will be on Amazon.ca. I noticed that there is more listed on there than there used to be.

    There's room for huge improvement yet. Especially in the pricing department. :grr
    I'm not impressed with CT's return policy. They can be really sticky about returns, whereas, other retailers will take a product back no questions asked, in some, if not many cases. Also, I know a fellow that sued a particular CT store over a defective product, as they wouldn't give him his money back. He sued the store and won the case. This had more to do with a particular CT store though, which was mismanaged. The store is now being run by a new owner.

    You must have a lousy local store. I've never had any trouble at all with CT and returns in four different locations in BC.
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  • Rybren
    Rybren Solar Expert Posts: 351 ✭✭
    #49
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    I've never had a problem with the retail side of the Canadian Tires that I've dealt with - they've always been good with returns and telling me when the next sale is. However, don't get me started on their car repair side of the house...
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #50
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    You must have a lousy local store. I've never had any trouble at all with CT and returns in four different locations in BC.

    Yes, I heard that the Peace River store was poorly managed. It is under new ownership now, however.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #51
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    The Champion 5500 is on sale starting tomorrow for $599.99
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  • Sun Dog
    Sun Dog Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    #52
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    You just beat me to it Marc :D
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #53
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    The Champion 5500 is on sale starting tomorrow for $599.99
    Sun Dog wrote: »
    You just beat me to it Marc :D

    Thank you!!! Will try to buy it.
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  • Sun Dog
    Sun Dog Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    #54
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Here are the links to adjusting the frequency, voltage and other tech bulletins:

    http://www.championpowerequipment.com/pdf/tech-bulletins/rpm_and_frequency_adjustment-8_10_2007.pdf

    http://www.championpowerequipment.com/pdf/tech-bulletins/avr_voltage_adjustment-1_4_2007.pdf

    http://www.championpowerequipment.com/tech-bulletins/

    Anyone know why they would suggest setting the voltage to 250V instead of 240V? Are they assuming a big voltage drop through typical extension cords? The meter on my XWSCP measured the frequency at 65Hz and the voltage on L1 and L2 at ~132V before I made my adjustments.
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #55
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    Sun Dog wrote: »
    Anyone know why they would suggest setting the voltage to 250V instead of 240V? Are they assuming a big voltage drop through typical extension cords? The meter on my XWSCP measured the frequency at 65Hz and the voltage on L1 and L2 at ~132V before I made my adjustments.

    They have some governor droop because of the mechanical governor. Champion likes to see the voltage and freq set over nominal at no-load so that when the generator is loaded to 50% load it is dead on nominal and stays within reasonable sag limits at full load. The assumption, of course, is that the generator is not operated at no-load except for startup and cooldown.
    --
    Chris
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  • Sun Dog
    Sun Dog Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    #56
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Makes sense. I made my adjusts at 70% load (~240V) and checked it again at 5% (~245V).

    NorthGuy, if you are "lucky" the sale the price will be $640..........benefit of living in the north.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #57
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    Sun Dog wrote: »
    Here are the links to adjusting the frequency, voltage and other tech bulletins.

    Thank you. I hope it'll be adjusted when I buy it, but I'll check.

    Followed you link and found instructions for unbonding neutral from the frame. Will have to do that too.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #58
    Re: Need help choosing a generator

    Let it break in, a few days of good hard work if you can, then get out the K-a-W and set it up with a moderate load using the K-a-W for the cycles, Volts should follow.
    hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #59
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    westbranch wrote: »
    Let it break in, a few days of good hard work if you can

    You mean few days with few hours per day?

    I was going to run it for 3-4 hours under load charging batteries as soon as I get a cloudy enough period, and I thought that would be enough.
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  • Sun Dog
    Sun Dog Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    #60
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    NorthGuy wrote: »

    Followed you link and found instructions for unbonding neutral from the frame. Will have to do that too.

    What is the purpose of unbonding the neutral? Would you just unbolt it from the frame and then tape it up or is there more to it than that?
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #61
    Re: Need help choosing a generator
    Sun Dog wrote: »
    What is the purpose of unbonding the neutral?

    To prevent current from flowing through the ground wire, which can happen if you have more than one neutral, ground bond in the system.
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