Choosing a good generator

softdown

Re: Choosing a good generator

What happened to Chrisolsen? His posts were packed with interesting info.

Also: What is a good, cheap battery temp monitor?

BB. wrote: »

Chrisolsen has some good information/experience regarding the Honda "delux" series of engines...







-Bill

Vic

Re: Choosing a good generator

softdown wrote: »

....

What is a good, cheap battery temp monitor?

A good charge controller, like the MidNite Classic will directly readout battery temp on its ' Temps ' menu page, if you use the supplied BTS.

For instant info, use a RadioShack (remember them ?) wired Indoor/Outdoor LCD thermometer, with the outdoor probe under the Styrofoam heat barrier with all of the other BTSes.

Wind-sun used to sell a Real Electrolyte thermometer, but no longer. Some all-glass cooking thermos may hare enough range on the low-end for this use.

FWIW, Vic

solorone

Champion Generac and Kubota.
In 30+ years I have been through a few gentsets. Though they are rather oversized, the Kubota 6500 diesel was a work horse and the head on it was pure quality, but I don't think the cost per KW was very cheap. Parts and upkeep are very very $$ and electronics issues can be hard to diagnose. I had great luck with Generac, currently I have an older GP 5500 with 1500 hours on it that will crank with he first pull, the high hours reflect the end of life of my panels and a 3 year illness, at $550 they almost disposable. I would not go the diesel route again.

I have the champion duel fuel from Costco, as I understand it the gen head is supposed to be wired different in the Costco model, to aid with surge ?? and it is supposed to be down graded by 375 watts to improve the HD ??? Out of the box it fired right up on LP. It is headed to the shop under warranty as it will not crank with the pull rope when using gas. First customer service tech treated me like an idiot, as this made no sense to him. Few weeks later I called an got a second Tech, he listened and had heard of one such issue, it does seem very odd, but my 46 YO 6' 3" son could not get it to crank either. OK sorry to digress
.
The Champion unit is fairly well built with a bit more plastic than I am use to. It was a slightly high on volts and Hz, dialed it down and loaded it up with 5 KW, and it showed very little change of either. I agree the 7000 watt is a bit large but down grade for LP and you have 6300 watts, subtract a bit more so you are not running at max, and I have about the right unit to push 100 + amps to my batteries. This unit is on the thirsty side, I would figure on almost a gallon an hour, and be happy with a 3/4 gallon average. A big plus is the built in battery charger, most Generac and other brand eclectic starts require you to plug in a 12 V wire plus you need to deal with the getting a controller for it if you do not want to unplug it.

It is louder than the Genrac GP 5500, but then it is larger. I have buried supply line a good ways from the house to abate noise plus will build a new sound/weather shelter when we run new HP gas line. $2.00 a gallon LP looks very inviting, these low gas prices will not last forever, plus I plan on adding another 500 gallon tank giving me 2000 gal. I buy in bulk once a year and can shop for the lowest price.

Denman

This'll give y'all a chuckle. My Generac Guardian 8 KW propane is headed to the shop. I'm gonna try out the Generac Eco Gen 15 KW. PERC is offering a $2K incentive if you're off grid and agree to send quarterly reports for a year. I'm all approved for that and just waiting on generator delivery and paperwork to finalize. I'll keep you folks updated on how it works out. We went with the 15 KW because it will fire an electric pottery kiln I have that's 11KW in needs. It's obviously oversized for our system and I'm hoping the ability to throttle down at half load will help lower the fuel costs a bit.

And I'm just not smart enough to not try stuff

softdown

So I talked to my genset repair guy and took a few curve balls. Keep in mind that this guy fixes small engines for a living and has a pretty strong electronics background. We met when he repaired VCRs etc back in 1991. Curveballs:
1) Almost all of the problems are fuel related. Ethanol is a monster that eats almost everything up while quickly degrading.
2) Auto low oil shutdown can also shut things down with too much oil. In particular, older dirty oil will clog things up and shut down the engine. You can incapacitate the low oil shutdown by simply disconnecting it.
3) He feels that a LOT of various gensets have Honda or Subaru or Briggs & Stratton engines. The electronics however, are a hodge podge. I was taken aback when he showed me a Harbor Freight Centurion genset that is almost the spitting image of my far pricier Onan. I visited Harbor Freights web site and many of their gensets have received favorable reviews.
4) Briggs & Stratton crushed their reputation when they produced a lot of small engines with a lot of plastic for awhile.
5) If you want first quality, get first run products when the dies are steel and fresh. In other words....newly designed products made with new die sets.

Of course....opinions vary.

solorone

softdown wrote: »

.
5) If you want first quality, get first run products when the dies are steel and fresh. In other words....newly designed products made with new die sets.

Of course....opinions vary.

Thanks for that, makes a lot of sense, like buying a low number print as it will most likely be sharper, better quality. Maybe I will be lucky with my Champion.

oil pan 4

softdown wrote: »

1) Almost all of the problems are fuel related. Ethanol is a monster that eats almost everything up while quickly degrading.

I agree, but don't tell that to the ethanol can do no wrong crowd.

oil pan 4

softdown wrote: »

2) Auto low oil shutdown can also shut things down with too much oil. In particular, older dirty oil will clog things up and shut down the engine. You can incapacitate the low oil shutdown by simply disconnecting it.

One can avoid needing such a thing by simply checking the oil before starting and when fuel is added.

basewindow

For what it’s worth I thought I’d update any of those interested (From my previous post in here) in how my cheap Chinese Fuji Micro XG4000 Generator is going.

I know most people here have decent larger Band Name Generators (And for good reason) but I thought it worthwhile to let those know who for one reason or another want one of these or are thinking of buying one.

Well it’s now almost five years old for a start. It has 140hrs on the clock. The oil has been changed three times, the spark three times and the filter cleaned three times. The oil was still good on all occasions and the spark not dirty or fouled.  I’m no mechanic but it’s cheap and easy to replace oil and sparks so why not.  The filters were all clean and did not need replacing. (I do keep this unit in a small shed so it’s not out in the weather and I clean out the dust, dirt and spider webs fairly regularly)

Has it had any issues?

Only one really, which I think was caused by me forgetting to put fuel stabilizer in the tank. (A full tank of unleaded 91 may last several months or more).

It began to surge whilst on ‘economy’ mode about 8 months ago. It was still producing good power, and on ‘normal’ mode it ran better, with only the occasional surge.  After changing the usual above, it was still happening, so I sprayed ‘carby’ cleaner in the carburettor, I drained the fuel, and ran a few tanks through with carburettor cleaning additives with a moderate load.  Half way through the second tank and thinking I was going to have to take out the carburettor and clean or rebuild it, it came good and is now running like a dream. So I’m guessing there was some issues with gum build up in the carburettor. I’ve since read that you should shut off the fuel tap and let it run dry to stop if it’s not going to be used for some time?

 

Has it done all claimed?

Well yes and no. I think the sound rating of 59db at 7m is a bit farfetched, I haven’t tested it with a meter but it’s pretty obviously not. On ‘economy’ with a very small load it’s certainly not noisy but having listened to comparable Hondas and Yamahas running they are definitely quieter. So if noise isn’t a real issue it’s okay. My closest neighbour is 1km away, so that’s not an issue.  I’ve mounted mine in a shed about 8m from the house and it sits on a sound absorbing mat, so again ‘noise’ isn’t too much of an issue.  Under a heavy load 2400w plus, I can hear it in the house. I wouldn’t recommend it for caravan use where noise may be an issue.

Power of 4kw? Not sure. Or not sure I’d want to run it at that for too long. As I said at 2400w it’s working fairly hard getting noisier. I still haven’t had it pulling any more than 3kw at a time which it did seem to do, but again it seemed like it was working hard and making noise. (It has an LCD display which shows current watts, oil, hours etc)

Electric start. Sometimes if it’s been sitting for a while unused the remote fob won’t start it.  They only fire the starter for about 2 seconds. But as the fuel tap is supposed to be left ‘off’ anyway if it’s left for extended periods, going out and turning that to ‘on’ then starting with the actual key is fine.  It usually starts with the fob fine after that.

The crappy battery needed to be replaced and since it is permanently mounted in the shed I never replaced it with one that fits inside the generator, but rather with an externally mounted one (50ah AGM) with a small solar set up to keep it trickle charged. So how long or how well it would work with the rated battery is anyone’s idea.

The pulley start is light and easy to work and fires pretty easily.

Fuel use. Bit hard to tell as it’s not something I use regularly enough or for long enough. Could you get the claimed 6.5-7 hours from the 14lt tank. Maybe on ‘economy’ with very little load.

The work I use it for is mainly for higher load items, such as power tools, vacuum, hair dryer and on one occasion an electric bar heater.  I have occasionally used it to charge my batteries when they’ve been low, via a 20a charger.

All of these things it has done well. The reason I tried a China knock off was that, I didn’t really want to spend the $3000-$4000au for a Honda or Yamaha, when I wasn’t sure how much use I was going to get out of it. Secondly as I’m not at my shack full time, I was concerned about the possibility of theft.  $4000 worth of investment going missing over $700-800. (Touch wood, nothing has ever been stolen yet). On a side note I bought a Chinese dirt bike for exactly the same reasons, which I’m reasonably impressed with so far.

So has it been okay for me? Yes. Would I buy another? Probably.

Would I buy one that size? Probably not, I just don’t really need that sort of power.

My experience so far with this particular generator, for my particular needs, has been good.

Is a Honda or Yamaha better, I’m guessing yes, but it comes at a cost. As for major servicing and parts I’m on the dubious side, but since I haven’t had any major issues yet I can’t give a definitive answer. Obviously with a Honda or Yamaha, again that won’t be an issue.

Is something like this good for you? Only you can answer this.

Cheers all.

vtmaps

basewindow said:

 So I’m guessing there was some issues with gum build up in the carburettor. I’ve since read that you should shut off the fuel tap and let it run dry to stop if it’s not going to be used for some time?

Thanks for the detailed review.  On the subject of draining the fuel lines and carburator, I don't know what's right...  a lot of experts on some other forums claim that it is best NOT to drain the fuel, but to make sure that the fuel in the system is non ethanol and is well stabilized.

--vtMaps

dogdude

Is this thread still going? I just spent parts of the last three days reading the WHOLE thing. Thanks guys!

vtmaps

dogdude said:

Is this thread still going?

Yes.  Welcome to the forum, dogdude.  Are you looking to buy a generator?

--vtMaps

dogdude

Thanks for the welcome!
No, in fact I already have a Honda eu2000i with virtually no time on it. Just about an hour's worth of full load run time to break it in a bit. I'm pleased to learn that the Honda is so highly recomended for off grid battery setups, as I will be using it in that capacity in the future.
For now it's standing by to run the furnace in the event of a power failure.

BB.

With any backup solution, make sure you run your setup for a while before you need it.

-Bill

706jim

I was at an astronomical "star party" several years ago. One of the participants was running his truck engine to charge a 4 Ah gel cell.

Now THAT is overkill!

dogdude

Do any of you guys have experience running the suitcase style Hondas at very low temperatures? I am in Alaska and the need for battery charging at 30-40 below will be a reality. What precautions are in order? I have run it in the open air at 2 above, fully loaded for an hour without trouble. I'm thinking that when it gets much colder I should plan on using a ventilated box of some sort to increase the ambient temp.

techntrek

706jim said:

I was at an astronomical "star party" several years ago. One of the participants was running his truck engine to charge a 4 Ah gel cell.

Now THAT is overkill!

But if it is only needed occasionally it is the best option.  I regular recommend that campers use their trucks to recharge via good jumper cables if they go out for a week once a year.  No reason to invest in a generator or solar for that.

westbranch

Others  here take theirs inside to allow for easier starts,  I'm like you don't worry too much till it gets to -18*C/Zero F.  After that it gets a bit stiff but will start with a lot of rope pulling... warmer is easier on the motor all around...

techntrek

dogdude said:

Do any of you guys have experience running the suitcase style Hondas at very low temperatures? I am in Alaska and the need for battery charging at 30-40 below will be a reality. What precautions are in order? I have run it in the open air at 2 above, fully loaded for an hour without trouble. I'm thinking that when it gets much colder I should plan on using a ventilated box of some sort to increase the ambient temp.

Someone here has an enclosure for their smaller genset, for extreme temps.  I can't find the thread at the moment.

Brock

We keep our eu2000i in our attached garage and I used to them move it outside to run it.  I have run it for a couple of hours at -15F (-26C) with a nice wind, no fun fueling it    but it ran fine.  I would just keep the genset in a warmer place until you need it or it might require more than one pull  

I welded a 3/4" flange on the exhaust of the genset and ran it out through the garage wall inside another 1 1/2 inch steel pipe. The nice thing is I can move it by simply unscrewing the 3/4" through wall exhaust and then it's portable again.  Also in winter it trows off a nice bit of heat inside the garage warming it up a bit and makes fueling a LOT more comfortable.

vtmaps

dogdude said:

Do any of you guys have experience running the suitcase style Hondas at very low temperatures? I am in Alaska and the need for battery charging at 30-40 below will be a reality. What precautions are in order? I have run it in the open air at 2 above, fully loaded for an hour without trouble. I'm thinking that when it gets much colder I should plan on using a ventilated box of some sort to increase the ambient temp.

Honda sells a cold weather kit for your generator.  I do not have one on mine.  We get temperatures 20 or 30 below 0° F here, but I have never had to run mine below 0° F.  Usually when it's that cold it is clear and sunny during the day and I have adequate solar gain.

I keep my honda in an above-freezing garage and take it outdoors to use it.   Never a problem to start, except for one slight problem that hondas are known for:   When cold the oil level sensor sometimes sticks and the generator runs for less than a minute and shuts off because it thinks it is low on oil.  I just start it again... if it happens a second time I check the oil level... maybe it really is low.

--vtMaps

dogdude

Good info. Thanks for the replies. My batteries and generator will be in a heated space and the genset will go outside just before I need to run it, so starting should be no problem. I will look into Honda cold weather kit. I suspect any cold weather problems will be most likely to appear when it's loafing along in eco mode at low revs. My chain saw (Stihl) for example, has a little reversible intake restrictor that you are supposed to swap back and forth seasonally to limit it's ability to gulp cold air in winter. Not sure if the Honda could experience carb icing, breather freezing..etc. I'll sure find out

westbranch

Use a synthetic oil in winter.  I use OPTI 4 (4 cycle) and OPTI 2  (2 cycle) oils all year round...  Note the Opti 2 has a property that makes an engine  hard to turn over, if it sits for a few weeks or more, until you have turned it over  a few times, then it loosens up....

BB.

If I remember correctly, the Honda cold weather kit is (at least) a heated crankcase breather tube... The breather can ice up (plug up) in very cold weather (as I understand). A plugged breather tube can blow the crankcase oil seals/gaskets.

-Bill

dogdude

Here is a link regarding the cold weather kits. Yes it's a heater for the breather tube.


http://www.babbittshondageneratorhouse.com/category/145/cold-weather-kits

dogdude

Just a quick note of thanks to you all and the operators of this site. I am a mining electrician by trade and with a strong understanding of the "theory", but still far more questions than answers when it comes to the products and techniques discussed here. This is obviously a very valuable resource for any of us that are venturing into the off grid world and wish to do it well.

just starting

Anyone know How Honda gens run at 10200'

westbranch

just like all the rest, loss of power due to altitude....  that is for both screamers and inverter types

mike95490

just starting said:

Anyone know How Honda gens run at 10200'

Wow, I suppose they will run, but at much reduced power. Maybe 50% less power!   But likely better than others. 

"performance of a "normally aspirated" internal combustion engine decreases about 3% for every thousand feet of altitude, because of the decrease in the density of the air." 

Don't forget, thinner air = less cooling for both engine and alternator

Vic

just starting said:

Anyone know How Honda gens run at 10200'

Hi just starting,

YES,  you should to expect to have a power output reduction of about 3% per 1,000 increase in elevation,  above Sea Level,  or in the cases of some gensets,  above 500 Ft,  or for others,   above 1,000 foot elevations  --  depends upon the manufacturer's specs.

Believe that Honda recommends re-jetting generators that often are run above 5,000 feet,  IIRC.

Believe that you now have an EU2000,  so you probably know what Honda recommends for your genset.

Good Luck,   Vic