Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Earnest Tilley

Ok im tired of playing around with my little rv/home napa batteries im ready to join the big boys. What is the biggest baddest most amp/hr battery i can buy commercial or home use? I forgot to cut my window unit off last night and it ran for about 3 hrs after dark then quit when i got up this morning my batteries where sitting at 12.5v. Ive decided to go 12v on my system because the longest run ill be doing is less than 3 feet. On the ac side ill be going 80ft max. I will be purchasing 4 more 85watt 12v panels in the really near future which will put me at 1020watts and i want to make sure that will be enough to run my window unit that pulls just over 600 watts 24/7 i will be purchasing another 60 amp charge controller for my 12v setup to make sure i dont go over 60 amps. Its mid summer here and i can run my window unit for about 7hrs each day without taking my batteries down to 12.5 after that it drops off quickly. I really want some batteries that will hold all the juice i can pump into them. My 4 rv/home deep cycle marine batteries charge up quick and discharge fast, Im ready to up my game even if it means scraping the old batteries. O and im not going 24v so dont bother telling me to switch. Ive done some research and found that for the short runs and small input < 1500 watts the bang for my buck is 12v. Is there a 12v 500+ amp hr battery out there? Like i said the bigger the better.

BB.

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

If you are into forklift batteries, 12 volt from 530 to 1,875 AH (bad enough for 'ya ):

• 12 Volts
• 530 Amp-hours at the 20 hour rate
• Dimensions: 18.88"L x 8.88"W x 23.25"H
• Weight: 465 pounds

• 12 Volts
• 1875 Amp-hours at the 20 hour rate
• Dimensions: 29.13"L x 12.94"W x 31"H
• Weight: 1422 pounds

-Bill

squarebob

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

I don't condone your reasoning, but to answer your question, GB Industrial Battery has an 1182 Amp Hr, 12 volt battery. It weighs 735 Lbs and costs $1745.00 delivered.

http://gbindustrialbattery.com/Forklift_Battery_Sizes_and_Specifications_Zone15.html

Good Luck

Cariboocoot

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

I don't know how many times it's been said here; running an air conditioner off a 12 Volt system is not a good idea. Your post brings up one of the main reasons: the biggest 12 Volt battery you can get.

Suppose you wanted to supply that 500 Watt unit 24 hours a day. That's 12 kW hours. On a 12 Volt system that's 1000 Amp hours. Say you want to recharge that at 10%. That's 100 Amps of current. That's more than 1 charge controller can handle. That's a lot of big wiring too.

For big Amp hours you can get industrial batteries. How's 530 Amp hours @ 12 Volts sound? http://www.solar-electric.com/crinba6.html That's $1,600.

Or you can buy large 6 Volt batteries and put them in series. 546 Amps hours @ 6 Volt * 2: http://www.solar-electric.com/6cs-17ps.html

Batteries that charge up quick and discharge fast are usually small in capacity. If not by label, then by sulphation.

Eric L

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Suppose you wanted to supply that 500 Watt unit 24 hours a day. That's 12 kW hours.

Actually he said it's over 600 watts 24/7. So that's over 14.4 KWh/day, just for the AC. The biggest battery mentioned above, at 1875 amp-hours, would thus not be big enough to get him through a single day with low sun without going significantly below 50% SOC.

Cariboocoot

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Eric L wrote: »

Actually he said it's over 600 watts 24/7. So that's over 14.4 KWh/day, just for the AC. The biggest battery mentioned above, at 1875 amp-hours, would thus not be big enough to get him through a single day with low sun without going significantly below 50% SOC.

Talking about two different things. The first was the example of why it'd not a good idea to try to run A/C off 12 Volts. The second was in answer to his request about 500 Amp hour 12 Volt battery systems. I didn't say it would work.

On the other hand A/C units don't run constantly; they cycle on and off. How much so depends on the ambient temp and humidity, how low you set the A/C, and how often the cat demands to be let in and out.

waynefromnscanada

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Eric L wrote: »

Actually he said it's over 600 watts 24/7. So that's over 14.4 KWh/day, just for the AC. The biggest battery mentioned above, at 1875 amp-hours, would thus not be big enough to get him through a single day with low sun without going significantly below 50% SOC.

Some listen and learn from the experience and knowledge of others, some won't listen and learn the hard, expensive way. Those who tried to help will have no personal regrets. They tried.

mike95490

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

I think HUP makes a really honking big battery.

Or some exotic LiIon batteries, or NiFe cells.

niel

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

mike90045 wrote: »

I think HUP makes a really honking big battery.

Or some exotic LiIon batteries, or NiFe cells.

never heard a battery honk yet. did hup build in some horns to their batteries?:roll::p

earnest,
a bigger battery may help some as well as a different battery bank voltage, but to keep costs reasonable, get more capacity in parallel with what you have with the same battery arrangement and put a timer on it so that it won't continue to run even if you fall asleep. more pv will be wanted as well to keep pace with the bigger ah capacity.

peakbagger

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Years ago in Home Power someone was selling surplus submarine batteries, these monsters were about 6 feet tall and required a circulator pump for the electrolyte. I have no idea what someone could do with them but they were impressive.

There are some uility size batteres that come in MW ratings, they are some exotic chemistry and require elevated temperatures. I expect unless you have a DOE grant you couldnt afford them.

inetdog

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

peakbagger wrote: »

There are some uility size batteries that come in MW ratings, they are some exotic chemistry and require elevated temperatures. I expect unless you have a DOE grant you couldnt afford them.

From wikipedia:

A sodium–sulfur battery or liquid-metal battery[1] is a type of molten-metal battery[2] constructed from sodium (Na) and sulfur (S). This type of battery has a high energy density, high efficiency of charge/discharge (89–92%) and long cycle life, and is fabricated from inexpensive materials. :-)
However, because of the operating temperatures of 300 to 350 °C and the highly corrosive nature of the sodium polysulfides, such cells are primarily suitable for large-scale non-mobile applications such as grid energy storage.

And here is the really good part: Lifetime of 2,500 cycles (at 100% DOD - depth of discharge), or 4,500 cycles (at 80% DOD)

solarvic

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

niel wrote: »

never heard a battery honk yet. did hup build in some horns to their batteries?:roll::p

Niel! Maybe they used hupp batterys in the hup mobile http://www.oldride.com/classic_cars/530973.html :cool: solarvic;)

mike95490

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

The HUP batteries start at 845 amps @ 12V Just 742 lbs.
http://proto.hupsolarone.com/?page_id=108

Earnest Tilley

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

BB. wrote: »

If you are into forklift batteries, 12 volt from 530 to 1,875 AH (bad enough for 'ya ):

• 12 Volts
• 530 Amp-hours at the 20 hour rate
• Dimensions: 18.88"L x 8.88"W x 23.25"H
• Weight: 465 pounds

• 12 Volts
• 1875 Amp-hours at the 20 hour rate
• Dimensions: 29.13"L x 12.94"W x 31"H
• Weight: 1422 pounds

-Bill

OOO YEA my mouth is watering where would be the best place to find one of those i got a truck and a friend with a front end loader so the weight wont be a problem, i can move it where ever which like i said will have to be really close to the solar panels because of the short runs im doing so i dont have to go with a 24v system. I understand a lot of people dont understand or dont want to understand that I have done the research and for what im doing 12v is better for me. Im by no means am i saying that going 12v is better for everyone but in my instance with less than 3ft from my solar panels to my charge controller and less than 1 foot to my batteries 12v is just more cost effective for me.

Cariboocoot

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Crown industrial 1875 Amp hour 12 Volt battery: http://www.solar-electric.com/crinba12vo18.html $4,000
You'll also need three charge controllers and about 2800 Watts of array to charge it.

BB.

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

The link is to our host's store (Northern Arizona Wind & Sun) to give you a good idea of the price.

However, shipping batteries can be costly. You might check with local battery distributors to see what they can do for you (and make sure they are fresh batteries--Log resting voltage and initial specific gravity).

It is possible that NAWS can arrange shipping from a local (to you) warehouse. But, all of us moderators here are volunteers and do not have any knowledge of NAWS's business (other than what you/we read on the forum).

-Bill

stephendv

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

On this side of the pond most of the manufacturers who make OPzS style 2V cells do them in 3000Ah or greater versions. Not sure if any of these are available in the US but you could try:
Sunlight: 3000Ah: http://www.systems-sunlight.com/?contentid=51&langflag=_en
Hoppecke: 4700Ah: http://www.hoppecke.com/content/view/full/1210

These guys seem to be US based and do a 3200Ah OPzS type batt: http://www.baebatteriesusa.com/products/docs/OPzS%202V%20Technical%20Specification-2011.pdf

garlmike

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

And BB also sells Forklift battery's I got 4 battery's 24 volt and 1000 ah at 6 hrs 1250 @ 20 hours 1500 @ 100 hours each. 1925 pounds each.
That gives me about 100 KWH (80% DOD)at my load rate. I'm using 20-25 per full day
And I'm happy with them, but still need a lot more as that's only 3 days of clouds.
So what's a good long term storage system for less that the $140.00 per KWH, that will charged in summer and last thur the winter?
CAES is what i'm looking at, also the fluid metal battery a 2nd.

Any other ideas?

westbranch

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Before the others jump in... 20 - 25 KwH per say is a great big shwack of power to use. can you expand a bit ? Are the loads constant across the day or large short term loads? Have you worked on reducing the use? Are you Off grid or on mains? What are oyur objectives?

garlmike

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

westbranch wrote: »

Before the others jump in... 20 - 25 KwH per say is a great big shwack of power to use. can you expand a bit ? Are the loads constant across the day or large short term loads? Have you worked on reducing the use? Are you Off grid or on mains? What are oyur objectives?

Yes I think that's close as I'm both on/off grid and just turn off grid power as they told me No Credits. Seems they did put in a 2 way meter but refuse to credit me for power unless 1. pay for 2 way meter 2. pay for massive paperwork (Which is thousands?, they would not say cost) so I don't grid tie.

OK my XW says the load is always 600-800 watts, at night the load goes up a lot for lights heater fans etc. Average loads of most people is about 20-25 kwh per day. I will use more in winter for heaters, water pumps and furance. And the electric stove, closes dryer is a real power drain.

I like to be over with power required and have alot more amps left at end of day with the lead battery as normally they go down to around 48.5v volts at the lowest. Today the system only made 14.2 kwh, it was cloudy most of day. If it's sunny they should be making 32 kwh and less to Dec. 21 Edmonton AB.
OK the voltage is 50.75v and its 6 pm the battery's did not charge fully up. In the last 7 days only one good charging day!

Photowhit

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

It's rare to be able to heat with solar, If you'd like to cut your cord with the power company, I'd look into other types of heating, gas, wood, As the days get shorter you would likely kill and battery system you would setup over the short days of winter.

inetdog

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

Photowhit wrote: »

It's rare to be able to heat with solar, If you'd like to cut your cord with the power company, I'd look into other types of heating, gas, wood, As the days get shorter you would likely kill and battery system you would setup over the short days of winter.

The only really cost effective way to heat with PV is to use a heat pump. If you were paying POCO prices for electricity, it would compare favorably with propane, and just about anything else other than piped natural gas and home cut wood.
Unfortunately that will not serve for cooking or drying clothes. The wind-assisted solar-thermal clothes dryer (line and clothespins) is the cheapest of all for that purpose.

garlmike

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

sorry about the last post . I have a water pump in a small building that's heated by electric, the house and shop is heated by natural gas and Blaze King wood.
There is also a sewer pump, and seeing this house has a wood basement it has another pump sub floor. (3 water pumps)

The Sub Battery sounds like $$, unless it could be rebuilt. The shipping.

The BB battery was ordered/shipped so it was new, and they put on the yellow caps. They still use a little bit of water but in 10 month I'll have abetter idea how much.
So far i got them in May 2012 and all cells are good. I think I only added a few gallons so far.

Did u hear about the new MIT battery?

garlmike

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

peakbagger wrote: »

Years ago in Home Power someone was selling surplus submarine batteries, these monsters were about 6 feet tall and required a circulator pump for the electrolyte. I have no idea what someone could do with them but they were impressive.

There are some uility size batteres that come in MW ratings, they are some exotic chemistry and require elevated temperatures. I expect unless you have a DOE grant you couldnt afford them.

http://www.relocationspecialists.org/bat/cell.html

westbranch

Re: Biggest Baddest Battery EVER

been away for a week building, so missed an opportunity to jump back in..my point is that you are using almost 50% more Kwh (at 24 Kwh) than we do here in BC with a very comparable climate and I stopped wood heating 10 years ago... our highest month is about 16Kwh, elec stove,2 fridges, 2 freezers, dryer, furnace fan, gas DHW and heat, water pump.

Have you worked on the conservation side as yet?