solar panels for 48 volt battery charging

wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
Hi all , I was looking to buy some solar panels to charge a 48v battery bank 
 they are Hanwha Q cellQ peak bulk 295 wG4.1 black frame mono panels 
 3 in series my lo temp is -27 o 
w295 is 9.56 voc38.91 imp 8.98 vmp31.73 n 17.1  vocx3 = 116.73  I have about back CC 80 
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Comments

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Will these panels work for me thanks in advance 
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 958Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    That's a comfortable combination for your controller. As to your system size vs. your daily needs that's another question that needs more info.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Thanks  for the reply , I’ve been taking up a lot of time over the last few years . 
     So I did not give that  information . 
     I’m still not sure of my power needs , I was trying to go small to start but that did not really happen 
     I settled on a out back system 36/48 flex power one . 
     I have 24 Hanwha 295 w panels eithe iron ridge 1000 racking . 
     I’m going to use gc215s for now . 8 or 16 I’m not sure yet .
    Here are a few update picks . We are moving at a snails pace working weekends . 
     Trying to get the paint done then we will mount up the solar equipment. 
     We started in 2014 with the road . 
     My son and I built  this buy our selves for the most part .
     My daughter is helping with the paint .
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 958Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Tight framing, Neat insulation, Good looking job on the Pex manifold. A job to be proud of.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    I bought 24 solar panels to just have them , I am thinking that 8 gc215 won’t be enough power for full time living . 
     16 gc215 could be ok . 
     My fall back plan is to go to 16 l16 when I move there   Full-time probably 16 385 amp hour l16 about 750 AHs at 48 volts .
    i have 40 led lights a tv , radio and phone charging and I use about 300 watts with every thing on , 
    i will need dish net work a phone booster , frig and that is about it .
     Washer and dryer , microwave  when the battery’s are full . 
    So im thinking 4000/5000 watts a day should be goods do fall around 40% discharge 
     I’ve been using a champion 1400 watt genarator since september it has 800/900 hrs on it now . 
     I’ve been changing the oil at 50/60 hrs with  Mobile one synthetic oil . 
     The unit runs 14/15 hrs a day .
      3 days a week . 
     I don’t know what’s going to happen when the panels get snow covered ? 
     
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,444Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    My loads are similar, no dish but have various pumps needing to run somewhat regularly. 18 x 250w panels keep a single string of L16s charged nicely most of the year, and a can handle 2-3 cloudy days with a bit of conservation.. In winter though, there's no getting around generator use. Some years I have to manually clear snow, some years not, depending on weather.

    A bit more storage wouldn't hurt, but rather than adding a second string of L16s, I'd likely go with 2v. 1/2 as many cells to check and water.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    I was thinking to mount 12 panels on the roof and 6 or 12 panels on the ground for charging battery.
     I also need 5 panels to pump water from 800’+- into a tank . 
     I could allways get more panels if needed , but I figured 2  dozen was a good start .
     The 2v cells look good but a bank of 24 is  very pricey 10000 bucks? 
     The l16 cost around 189/ 220 +- 3000/3500  that is a huge jump in price 
     the l16 should last 5/7 Year’s  will the 2volt cells last 15 /20 Year’s?
       How many  hours a year are you running your genarator in the winter ?
      I have been figuring maybe 150 hr a year ? I’m  near Binghamton New York  The snow was the wildcard but my roof Seems to stay pretty clear at the top all winter 
     it stoped snowing at 800 and the pic was shot at 130 pm 
     

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,605Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Another option would be a forklift battery, a bit more maintenance, but they have a long life and are mass produced.

    You can click on the battery and they will give you a price. 

    http://gbindustrialbattery.com/

    Please note their 20 hour battery capacity rate is very high realistically figure about half way between the 6 hour and 20 hour for a true 20 hour rate. They aren't light and you will need some place to set it. I have a 12-85-13 and it was $2225 (or maybe 2525... my feeble mind) delivered. 1100 lbs and I had to move it once! Really shouldn't have done it without machinery, and you couldn't with much wore weight.

    It's 7 years old now and hanging in there. I believe it was poisoned back when I worked security where it lived. I had one cell that turned dark brown, but the SG was good, after 7 years it's now the lowest and I have a hard time keeping it close to 1.260, others are fine. If I was closer to the 'big city' I'd have someone come out and replace the cell (or would have) but I'll live with it now and replace the battery with a 48 volt, along with the inverter.(when I moved I moved into a much larger less well insulated home.)

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,444Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    The cost/amp-hour for 2v likely higher for individual 2v, but not that much more (comparing like for like).

    Our hosts don't appear to have flooded 2v ~700ah, but using a Rolls (considered by some to be a "premium" brand) 1110ah 2v flooded as an example, $342 x 24 = 8,200. 3 strings of L16 would be close, so say $220 x 24 = 5,200. Rolls S550 L16s, $327 x 24 = 7,850. If I could buy a decent L16 locally for under $200, I'd probably go that way though.

    I'm not here (NW Ontario) full-time in winter, but likely have ~6-8 hrs/week genny run time in the really bad bit (maybe 4-6 weeks either side of Xmas) if I'm am. There's a period about 2 weeks either side of Xmas that the sun is so low that even if it's clear I get almost no pv. I use a 4kw diesel for bulk, and if necessary a little Honda eu2000i for occasional absorb.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,045Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    My gen  use is a bit less than Estragon's though I am a bit further North but near the west Coast ( ~ 100 mile as the Crow sees over the Coastal range) and can get by with a Bulk about once a week if the sun comes out, this last winter seemed to be a lot more cloudy ..... I use the E3000 for beginning the long bulks as the 30Amp 24V charger does a periodic check on the charge status  (SoC... DoD?) and that check really loads down the E2000 almost to a stall. After 1  hour or so, depending on the charger read out, I usually shift to the E2000 as it nears   Absorb.
    The E1000 will NOT run the charger, it Needs at least 1100W constant...hth


     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    The fork lift battery’s looks good , I bought one for my lift a few years ago .
     I think it cost 3000 bucks but it was refurbished 36 volt .
     How would I vent that battery ? 
    Inclose it in a box to the right of the inverter.
     What do yo think about having my battery in the  utility room with a gas fired hot water heater ? 
     No one really seams to be worried about it  (inspectors / my solar sales guy ) 
     I think the instahot draws  air thru the   Chimney but my standard water heater is standard a vent .?
     How large a genarator should I use for the 3600wat inverter charger .  
     I think I would want to run the charger  full size fridge , washer and dryer some lites and tv . 
     Out back suggests twice the inverter rating 7500 watts you guys are running small units 

     
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,444Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Generator sizing depends on loads, including the size of the bank to be charged.

    I think my Outbacks can do ~45adc (each) charging. That's about C/8 for my single string of L16s, which is a decent rate of charge. 45adc x 58v charging =~2.6kw, which is a reasonable load for a 4kw diesel. I limit current to split the charging load between 2 stacked inverters.

    The 4kw is an Onan 1800rpm circa 1982 that came with the cabin when I bought it. Small 1800rpm are hard to find, so I'll try to keep it going as long as possible. If I had to buy a new one I'd likely look for an 1800rpm with around 7-8kw capacity. The 4kw would do the job with a bigger bank, but just take longer.

    For venting, I'd probably put a power vented (voltage controlled) fresh air supply pipe near the bottom of a battery box, with exhaust to daylight pipe at the top of the box.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    With a 4000watt genarator , do you turn off your loads while charging ? 
     Frig lights ect . 
      I guess I could charge early in the am with out using power but the frig would turn on and off. 
     The outback will switch back to inverting if the genarator get over loaded but do I really want to do this long term .
      I’m looking at the Surplus military generators 4000 watt 8000watt 10000watt .
      The 4000 is a 3600 rpm but some of the 10000watt are 1800 rpms . 
     Or I could get a 8/10 watt made at CMDeisel  it would be a new unit but pricey . 
     Maybe both 4000 10000 
      At say 150 hours a year I could buy a new champion genarator and change it out every year for 3/400 bucks .
     I have a champion 3500 and 1800 now and I’ve been running them for 4 years building the house , I just did a valve adjustment on them and they seem like they are holding up well . 
      

      I am getting ready to hook the system up .
     Should I buy Premade battery cables and solar panel tables with all the ends andconnections already on or should I buy the tools to make them my self ? 
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,444Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    I run the fridge while charging, but make sure pumps are turned off. The fridge only takes a lot of power when starting, not much to run for the rest of the cycle. The diesel lugs a bit when it starts, but carries on fine.

    Personally, I'd likely go for an 1800rpm 10kw if charging in bulk could take ~50% of it's output. A good diesel is more expensive than a cheap contractor grade generator, but with a bit of upkeep will last a long time. That said, the economics of just replacing cheap ones periodically are compelling.

    I would definitely get premade cables as much as possible. Good crimping equipment for large wire is expensive, and I find it really hard to get good connections with cheaper alternatives. Making connections with smaller (eg 4ga and less) isn't too hard, but big inverter and battery wire is tough (to me).
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    As you stated above the out back charger draws 2.6 wk  I only have one for now ,way below 10000 watts 
     I like the 10000 watt 1800 rpm unit I have a lot of kabota equipment and can get good service if needed . 
     But it is a little large . 
     I would like to charge the battery’s run frig ,washer , dryer few lites radio / tv  my best   guess would be 4000watts 
     so what size genarator should I be looking at .
     I’ve seen a 6125 watt. Unit that will run at 5700wats 
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,444Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Since you already have some gas generators that are working, why not just use them for now and see how it goes? If one croaks, you have a backup giving you some time to decide what comes next.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    The one genarator is 1800 watts but it only gives good power to 1000 watts 
     the other one is 4700 watt surge 3650 running watts and it will run a compressor and 15 amp saw radio and a light 
     it Boggs way down if we run the saw and Compressor, or try to start 2 saw at the same time . 
      I’ve never really checked but I don’t think it will give good power over 3000 watts . 
     I don’t think the inverter will like the power  fo charging 
     I will try it and see if it works .
     I’m also building a genarator shed and need to get a handle on tthe size and shape of the genarator that will go in it.
      
  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,707Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I have a 3Kw genset and never switch off loads while charging batteries
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Mike are you charging with your inverter and runnng loads or inverting and charging with iota charger?
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    I would like to rig up my equipment this weekend , my solar panels are in , I’m going with 1 gc215 from sams club to start thinking I could get 5 years out of them if lightly used . 
     Could I buy 8 battery today and 8 battery’s in 5/6 weeks ? 
     I don’t know how long it is going to take me to get up and running so I thought I would start with 8 now and keep them charged with a standard battery charger at 12 volt if I have a problem with my out back charger . 
     I could  probably hook up 3 295 watt panels  temporarily to get some power into the battery’s ?
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    I’m going with16 gc215s 
  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 1,888Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Best to get all batteries at the same time, do an equalization before putting into service, for best results. Haste makes waste, or so the saying goes.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    My store did not have 16 battery to day . 
    They have a new palet coming in on Saturday 
     it’s allways some thing .
     
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,605Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    wellbuilt said:

    They have a new palet coming in on Saturday  
    Check the date codes and get all the batteries from the same lot.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    I asked that they give me all new battery’s and charge them for me 
     they told me they should be all new stock a shoulder need any charging .
    ill have to check th sg before I buy 
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,444Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Checking date codes seems like a wise precaution to me as well. You don't want a couple that have been rehabbed after sitting for a year or two :wink:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,605Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    wellbuilt said:
    ... before I buy 
    Unless you have a bunch of batteries laying around, I'd suggest going to every shade tree mechanic and lawn mower repair shop and buy their dead batteries to use for cores. I don't know what the core charge is in your neighborhood, but a $5 lawn tractor battery will save you $13-20 depending on the core charge. (I've heard $18-25) well worth a few hours to pick them up. Some places, like Florida, apparently don't allow the sale of used LA batteries... so shade tree mechanics of cars and mowers might bein order.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,707Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I run loads AND charge batteries, and let the inverter brains figure out where to channel the power
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Raj174Raj174 Posts: 609Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    @wellbuilt
    Check out this site I ran across, they have several smaller Kohler and Kubota diesels that might be of interest. One of them is 1800 RPM.

    http://www.centralmainediesel.com/diesel-generators.asp

    Rick
    12 x 300W Renogy PV, MNE175DR-TR epanel modified, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 54.4V 207AH HI Power LiFePO4 no BMS, 4000W gen.
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Posts: 263Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    EST I wi check the codes to be sure they are the same . 
     Sams club buys a new full Pallet at a time the guys tell me they should be all the same in new they sell a power every couple of weeks this time of year
     PW I’ve never had a core charge at sams club in my area ? 
     I have a lot of equipment and trucks and I’m buying batteries all the time I just save them up and take themto the recycler when they pile up. 
     I did notice that my battery’s went up this week ( figures) from 84 to 94 dollars it seems crazy a 10 dollar jump just like that . 
     3/4 plywood jumped from 21 to over 40 rollers in a year so 10 doesn’t seem so bad . 
      
     Mike sooooo your inverter is switching between charging and loads with a 3000watt genarator ? 
     My inverter can do that but guy are telling me that to much searching can Where out the contacts and
     
      Rick I have bought from them before I can ride up and pick up a unit . 
     I’ve been looking at the air cooled 5000 watt ,  Perkins 6125 watt water cooled , and a 10000 watt kabota .
      The Perkins seems to best fit my needs but it turns at 2300 rpms not the common 1800 rpms . 

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