Chinese Li-ion batteries for RV

Some one on the Teardrop &Tiny Travel Trailer forum asked if any one had experience with Chinese Li-ion batteries. Smaller less weight... The question is this  https://dmdinverter.en.alibaba.com/product/60536302549-804800430/Deep_cycles_2000_times_ultra_light_ultra_thin_12v_lithium_panel_energy_storage_solar_battery_200ah.html?spm=a2700.8304367.0.0.bJQ9DU A real life possibility and what are the down sides.


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  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭
    Some one on the Teardrop &Tiny Travel Trailer forum asked if any one had experience with Chinese Li-ion batteries. Smaller less weight... The question is this  https://dmdinverter.en.alibaba.com/product/60536302549-804800430/Deep_cycles_2000_times_ultra_light_ultra_thin_12v_lithium_panel_energy_storage_solar_battery_200ah.html?spm=a2700.8304367.0.0.bJQ9DU A real life possibility and what are the down sides.
    Warranty claims ?
    Which "Li" formula ?  LiPo4 (LFP) seems to be the safest (least fire) pack compared to others. But still burns well..
    getting mismatched batteries that reduce your expected pack capacity by 20% ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭
    NO !!
    pic from your link These are possibly "re-claimed", re-wrapped batteries from failed laptops
     (and I don't trust their -20C temp spec)  (I don't trust the different shades of heat shrink wrap)
    Way too many contact points - just 1 bad one can ruin your day





    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • ShadowcatcherShadowcatcher Solar Expert Posts: 226 ✭✭
    There are other Chinese manufacturers, thanks for the potential problem.
     
  • HorseflyHorsefly Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭✭
    There are other Chinese manufacturers, thanks for the potential problem.
     
    I think the point from @mike95490 is making is that the specific chemistry of the cells is pretty important. The chemistry that is used in laptops and the like (most of the recycled chinese cells as far as I can tell) have an electrolyte that is much more combustive. It isn't which chinese manufacture you get them from, it is the chemical composition of the cells.

    Having said that, I'm only a very interested observer of all the Li Ion battery technology. However there are several *REAL* experts here and you should probably pay some attention to them.
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 4 x Vmax XTR12-155 12V, 155AH batteries in a 2x2 24V 310AH bank.
  • Raj174Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 480 ✭✭✭✭
    @Shadowcatcher
    There are a lot of RV's that use Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries. There are basically 2 types. There are manufactured 12 volt packs, usually 100 amp hour, but they can be installed in parallel for more amp hours.
    https://www.solar-electric.com/battle-born-bb10012-100ah-12v-lithium-battery.html

    Then there are the large prismatic LFP cells that range from 20AH up to 1000AH.  These cells can be purchased in custom built packs with a BMS or they can be top balanced and installed as a DIY battery bank. Proper balancing and charging procedures need to be carefully followed with a DIY bank.
    Here's a link to this type cell.
    http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/Prismatic-Lithium-Batteries_c_1.html

    Rick   


    12 x 300W Renogy PV, MNE175DR-TR epanel modified, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 195AH HI Power LiFePO4 no BMS, 4000W gen.
  • PNjunctionPNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Most of the serious guys in the past eschew the use of "drop-in" replacements, and go for KISS with large prismatics.  But to each his own.  Note that some manufacturers may warn against doing any sort of series-parallel arrangements.  Mostly because trying to keep disparate drop-in cells balanced amongst themselves can be an issue.

    Sadly, with LFP, the basics of battery bank construction are lost.

    Ask yourself this:  If you were building a large capacity AGM bank for your RV, would you purchase hundreds of 2.5Ah Odyssey/Enersys Cyclon cells and tack weld them all together and slap them in a box? (as good as those are).  NO.

    At least battle born identifies the LFP chemistry.  However, we have no idea what the quality of those internal cells are, nor are we assured that the quality won't change if they decide to go with different vendors.  The consumer won't know.  Essentially, you don't know what you are getting.

    Do you buy lead acid this way not knowing who actually made your cells?  

    In the past, *NEW* cells like A123 were proudly identified as being the internal cells with certain large(ish) capacity batteries (along with Kokam and others), for those of us in the know to make a more informed decision.

    STill, at some point we avoid the "magic box" concept not knowing what is actually inside, and potential problem points adding up from so many internal connection points.  Hence the simplicity of large prismatics you can actually put your voltmeter across - on each and every cell as part of a preventative maintenance routine.

  • ShadowcatcherShadowcatcher Solar Expert Posts: 226 ✭✭
    The prismatic looks interesting, the Morningstar solar controller can be programmed to work well and Progressive Dynamics makes a head unit for their converter. Thanks all for your input.  
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