XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

mike95490
mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Is there a way, with the XW, when running the genset, to force the wobbly genset power to feed the charger, and have the inverter provide clean AC?

Or, am I doomed to having the inverter track the wacko freq fluctuation of an antique single cylinder 5KW genset?
Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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Comments

  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    Mike,
    It's hard to believe you'd get anything but sweet pure ac from that rig. One of those that will require explosives to finally retire. Checked out the voltage regulator on the alternator?

    Ralph
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    Yes! Get an external charger! You can't expect a state of the art grid/offgrid inverter/charger to run on bad power. The Outback G series won't even try!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Mike,
    It's hard to believe you'd get anything but sweet pure ac from that rig. One of those that will require explosives to finally retire. Checked out the voltage regulator on the alternator?Ralph

    It's that 300# of flywheels can't smooth out the single power pulse, and so the line freq wanders between 58 - 62 every 2 seconds. I've not hooked up the electric yet, but comments on the Lister board, state that the outbacks won't track it and won't charge, and I'm wondering if the XW series will look at the generator feed and just ignore it, sync to it, or what?

    Wave shape from the genhead is OK, just wobbly freq. Nothing to do with RPM governor.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    fHi Mike,

    Very cool looking generator !

    Do the OB inveters have an AC Line, plus a Generator in ? I'd think that that a generator (AC 2 in the X SW Series) would be very tolerant of frequency variations, or is the problem frequency and Voltage variation ?

    Have not played with either the Listeresque generators or OB inverters.

    As Dave notes, you may be in the market for a DC Charger.

    Good Luck, HNY Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    The outback off grid series as well as the xw series from xantrex and all others will work with that genny. I have almost the same setup a 6/1 lister and the lights just wobble with the power stroke of the engine it is a function of the single cylinder and really low rpm.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    Looking purely at the spec sheets:
    Xantrex XW: 55 - 65 Hz (default); 44 - 70 Hz (allowable)
    Outback: 54 to 66 Hz
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    The problem you will find is the XW will lock to the generator frequency and when the "beast" changes frequency because it is not "reasonably"stable the XW will cycle the source to inverter and reacquire the generator. This may not be a problem if you are just charging batteries! I would not want an expensive washing machine or my laptop running. Don't even go there with a football game in HD on the big screen. There will be a nice "pulse" and how many lives do your loads have? Use a CFL to test!

    Maybe your "generator" won't do this try it!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    There are two requirements for aquiring and maintaining lock.

    The fixed freq range per the XW spec is first.

    Second one that is not spec'd is the rate of change of freq to aquire and maintain phase lock. The loop bandwidth is fairly low. More then about 1 hz per second wobble will cause it to lose lock and release. This can be a problem with a load surge on some generators.

    I have a 15kW gen with stepper motor throttle control. At no load it wobbles about +/- 1 hz per second and I sometimes have trouble getting by SW's to lock on. When it does have trouble I just plug a sixty watt bulb in the gen to smooth it out.

    Just make sure your at 60 Hz nominally and try it. The inverter will not clean up the wobble, it will possibly track it.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: XW inverter charger behavior Generator Support

    I have a 60 watt lightbulb always on with my old Simpower 10kw diesel genset. It is in the control housing and runs whenever the genset runs. If not on, the electronics get cranky and will shut down. I found this out after years of inconsistent running. Also there's a 60 bulb in there just for when the unit is pre-heated before running. It helps warm things up and dry out any moisture in the control housing.

    It would be nice to not have lightbulbs burning, but I've finally figured out most of the idiosyncryses (bugs) in running with this genset.

    Ralph
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