Enphase

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #62
    Re: Enphase

    wonderful as now we'll have guerrillas that are most likely going to make it tougher on legit systems by nec rules that will tighten up, not to mention bad raps to the industry when something goes wrong.

    edited to add the word have. see what happens when i fail to reread?:confused::cry:
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  • Toner Duckpin
    Toner Duckpin Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭
    #63
    Re: Enphase

    Here's another video on youtube. What's with the 2x4's on the roof? Do you really want your customers seeing you kicking a solar panel?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7pPOjYnCbg
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,622 admin
    #64
    Re: Enphase

    Regarding the 2x on the roof... Comments say that the local building department required the structural support because it was a commercial building (some sort of office?)--and they argued for days against it...

    Perhaps, some jobs should be walked away from--Probably nothing but roof/water problems for decades to come until somebody rips the panels off and rebuilds the roof/office because of long term water damage.

    Perhaps, if they installed a standard rail installation instead--it would have passed code.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #65
    Re: Enphase
    BB. wrote: »
    Regarding the 2x on the roof... Comments say that the local building department required the structural support because it was a commercial building (some sort of office?)--and they argued for days against it...

    Unfortunately, stupid rules like that are far too common in local jurisdictions. I foresee a lot of problems in the future with that setup, especially since it seems to me in Colorado, where snow melt damming up will make it even worse.
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #66
    Re: Enphase

    OMG ... kicking the panels to fit and non-treated lumber for a rail support? all for the price of 13K plus installation ... what a disaster
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #67
    Re: Enphase
    Solar Guppy wrote: »
    OMG ... kicking the panels to fit and non-treated lumber for a rail support? all for the price of 13K plus installation ... what a disaster

    They stated that the system was "about" $13,000. It has 12 175-watt panels. That comes out to around $6.20 a watt. That is as much or more than conventional grid tie systems.

    And you don't have to kick them to fit...

    And considering that was a "professional" installation, think how the average consumer that walks into Lowes and buys a couple of panels will do it. :p
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #68
    Re: Enphase

    It's practically certain that people will be walking in to Lowe's, buying a panel/inverter, wiring it to a line cord and plugging it into the wall to reduce their monthly bill. 90% of the time this will work and go unnoticed. That other 10% of the time they'll do something horribly wrong and the house will burn down. Then you'll have people screaming about how 'unsafe' grid-tie and/or solar in general is.

    Sometimes there's good reasons for the rules and regulations. Other times they are garbage made up by people who don't understand what they're doing. When's the last time you met a local inspector, much less a politician, who had an engineering degree?
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #69
    Re: Enphase
    niel wrote: »
    wonderful as now we'll have guerrillas that are most likely going to make it tougher on legit systems by nec rules that will tighten up, not to mention bad raps to the industry when something goes wrong.

    I'm late in looking at these Enphase microinverters, but I was under the impression that these have a different UL listing than the grid tie inverters. and were designed much as the earlier Trace type microinverter to back feed and offset incoming electric. with the eye to being user installed. I think the earliest Trace ones actually had a hot plug that you plugged into the wall!

    I'm reading up a bit as an installer in Cincinatti is offering an enphase system (4kw?) for about $7.40 a watt before incentives/credits.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #70
    Re: Enphase

    i seriously doubt that the nec is going to go along with a user installation without any inspections just as it is with any other gt system. plug and play needs inspected too imo. if i'm wrong then please tell me so with the links to back it.
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  • BillF
    BillF Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    #71
    Re: Enphase

    Unless the Akeena inverters are set up differently, Enphase inverters output 240vac. So for a true plug and play setup, a 240 circuit will have to be installed along with a 240 wall outlet. And you have several of those to choose from based on anticipated amperage. Some really smart homeowner may get away with it but...

    With the new "smart" kWh meters or even just a plain jane digital kWh meter a utility will know the instant you backfeed and will be knocking at your door. Unless you have the old (love them) analog kWh meter with the spinning disk you will have to work with the utility.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #72
    Re: Enphase

    Well, you might get a day or so with no real "backfeed", because your internal usage will consume all PV generation. Of course, on a sunny day, when the fridge shuts off, and there are no other loads in the house, you'll be running backwards.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
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  • Toner Duckpin
    Toner Duckpin Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭
    #73
    Re: Enphase

    Here's another video. This one seems a little more professional.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rRF6iZRagA
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  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    #74
    Re: Enphase

    I've been doing electronics for over 35 years. My 2nd job was doing R&D for the precision capacitor dept of Tektronix. I just do not trust electrolytic capacitors in switching type power supplies especially in adverse environments. I've read how Emphase has done thorough testing etc, but I bet you they are going to have premature failures with these inverters. I would be scared to death of having to run around 7 years from now replacing Emphases by the hundreds.

    Reliability is number one with my installs. The grid-tie solar business model is based on virtually no maintanence. Replacing inverters from uderneath some module in the middle of an array doesn't cut it with me. There are alternatives to electrolytic caps - but more expensive of course.

    I would prefer the other new system that puts a mppt dc to dc converter on each module that outputs a regulated high voltage dc to a central inverter which can run more efficiently because it has a fixed input volatge. The module mounted electronics are much simpler than Emphase, use only film caps, and are very efficient.
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