Ideas on more efficient energy storage?

Re: Ideas on more efficient energy storage?

One thing to remember is that the cost of gasoline contains a huge amount of direct and indirect taxes... Probably more than 33% right now in California. If you include Canada and Europe--the "price" of the fuel is only a fraction of the pump price.

For a while a few years ago, it was cheaper to buy fry-oil at Costco and put it in your diesel than to purchase diesel at the pump. And, at that point, we had some states checking tanks to see if the they were driving with untaxed fuels.

Plug-in vehicles make sense right now because there are no road taxes on electricity... And in the ideal situation, with Grid Tied solar, I can generate my own power without any taxes at all (no utility, properly, state/local/fed).

Pricing per mile seems to vary widely, from $0.012 to $0.10 per mile (PDF Download Oregon, equivalent to $0.24 to $2.00 per gallon gasoline tax (the $0.24 rate would equal the then 2003 tax per gallon of fuel. The $2.00 per gallon would be for a "congestion fee").

To a high (that a quick search showed from a 2006 Times Online UK article):

The M25, London’s orbital motorway, is likely to be considered as it has the worst congestion and traffic is continuing to grow rapidly. A fourth lane is being added to the remaining three-lane sections and one option would be to charge for access to the new lane at peak times. The trial would be a forerunner to a national charging scheme covering all roads, which the Government has said could be introduced around 2015. Congestion on motorways and A-roads would reduce by 34 per cent if charges of up to £1.34 a mile were introduced, according to a study published by the Department for Transport in 2004.

California is probably right now paying around $0.60 a gallon more than people in Oklahoma because of various regulatory, forced market, and even voluntary taxes... That does not even include the state and federal taxes (an royalty payments) that oil companies have to pay (and would probably need to be added to "non traditional" fuel sources to equal the current "infrastructure demands" already funded by our governments.


As soon as electric vehicles become "popular" (say over 10% of the traffic--government is gong to have to "do something" to make up for the losses in gasoline/diesel taxes and revenue.


Whether it is a GPS tax, a Electric Car Tax meter, toll roads, or whatever--it will happen.


Take the numbers of 100,000 miles driven for a vehicle (using California pricing for fuel and mid-level use of electricity). For a 20 MPG gasoline powered car:



100,000 * 1/20 MPG * $3.00 per gallon = $15,000 fuel costs per 100k miles



For an Electric Vehicle (assuming electric vehicle on city streets during commute congestion pricing):


100,000 * $0.10 per mile road tax = $10,000 road tax
100,000 * 0.4 kWh per mile * $0.29 per kWhr = $11,600 electric costs

===========================================
Total cost of fuel+taxes = $21,6000 per 100k miles


Just pulling numbers out of the air--but this is what the finances could look like in California if the average consumer paid average electric power prices and a per mile congestion fee using these proposals vs what we pay today.


Feel free to play with your what-if numbers... I would be interested to see how other view the issues.



-Bill

Re: Ideas on more efficient energy storage?

As I said, the numbers I used where based on California's (specifically, Northern California's PG&E) power rates... My own E-7 Time of Use plan ranges from $0.09 per kwhr off peak, baseline rates to $0.29 per kWhr for peak summer noon-6pm weekday rates).

For people that use ~600-900 kWhrs (200-300% of baseline) per month, the incremental rate is between $0.33743 off peak summer to $0.54742 peak summer... If you use anything more than a 300 kWhrs per month here--the rates become pretty scary (600-1,000 kWhrs per month seem to be pretty average here).

The equivalent flat rate E-1 Residential (same summer/winter rates, no time of day charges) for 200-300% of baseline (approx 600-900 kWhrs per month) is $0.38 per kWhr.

The $0.012 per mile rate was from Oregon DOT as their estimate of a $0.24 per gallon tax. The $0.10 per mile rate was their estimate of congestion charges they where proposing for use with the GPS based tax system...

The whole reason for the GPS taxing system was to do variable pricing based on when and where you drive and to capture the lost revenue from people driving more fuel efficient cars. From the Oregon PDF report I link earlier:

Oregon’s adventure in developing the Oregon Mileage Fee
Concept—the new revenue platform tested in the Road User Fee
Pilot Program—began during the 2001 Oregon Legislative Assembly. Early in the legislative session, members of the Oregon House Transportation Committee received the visual treat of a parade of alternative fuel vehicles developed by automobile manufacturers. The legislators examined early versions of the hybrid electric vehicle as well as cars fueled by natural gas, bio-fuels and an assortment of other alternative fuels, including a fuel cell concept car.

As the legislators toyed with these cutting edge vehicles, a question nagged at them—what would happen to state road revenues if Oregonians started buying and driving these new vehicles in large numbers? Aware of Oregon’s heavy reliance on gasoline tax revenues, they intuitively knew the answer—Oregon’s road system would be in jeopardy as the gasoline tax revenues necessary to maintain, preserve and modernize the system slowly but steadily drained away.

The $0.24 per gallon gasoline was for road taxes... Does not include income taxes, utility fees, environmental chargers, franchise fees, US Federal Taxes, etc...

The $0.10 was for local driving around cities... At this point, electric vehicles are not going to be very practical for long distance driving on "low fee" roads. And, I believed that the governments would not stop at 1.2 cents per mile with the GPS system--if that were the case, there would be no reason for GPS at all. They could simply require a certified Odometer for flat rate taxes.

Again, I am not saying that your interpretation is incorrect... But, in Oregon (and California helped to fund some the Oregon GPS studies), that was where they are attempting to head... To basically pull "fuel" out of the price of the equation and "equalize" road taxes between the hybrids/electrics and the SUV's. From ODOT GPS FAQ:

Why is it necessary to replace the fuel tax on gasoline as the principal source for funding our roads?

The state of Oregon is heavily dependent upon fuel tax revenues. For the year 2002, state and federal fuel taxes were 70 percent of total state revenue for roads. Our ability to pay for roads is at risk when fuel tax revenues begin to flatten or decline. Fuel efficiency of Oregon’s automobile fleet has eroded fuel tax revenues over the past 30 years.

Further improvement of automobile fuel efficiency, particularly with the adoption of the hybrid electric vehicle engine, will have an even more dramatic effect on fuel tax revenues in the not-too-distant future. The expectation is for a gradual decline of fuel tax revenues beginning in about ten years. This situation could accelerate if gas prices rise significantly due to world events

Why not simply raise the fuel tax on gasoline rather than go to an entirely new revenue mechanism?
From 1981 through 1991, the Oregon legislature passed several rate increases for the gas tax to solve pressing problems resulting from declining gas tax revenues owing to inflation and increased vehicle fuel efficiency. A growing population in the 1990s created severe stress on the road system. The legislature and Oregon voters rejected proposals to raise the gas tax to pay for needed improvements and delayed maintenance. While the Road User Fee Task Force is not proposing automatic inflation adjustments to the road revenue system, the task force believes that any new revenue system should be designed to eliminate the future effect of dramatic automobile fuel efficiency improvements of Oregon’s statewide vehicle fleet.

This is simply a plan to ensure that alternative and just plain more fuel efficient vehicles pay the same road taxes as anyone else. When road taxes (and other government revenues based on oil company profits and such are added in)--I would suspect that the GPS road tax rates will be much higher than the $0.012 that was proposed in this report (from 2003).

I am not arguing that electric vehicles are a bad idea... It is just that so much of our infrastructure and other government programs would be dramatically affected by alternative fuels.

I can buy a natural gas powered Honda and an in-home CNG compressor today--and avoid road taxes--at least for now. Hmmm, for some reason, the charges for Natural Gas used in my car is about 1/2 the charges for using Natural Gas to heat my home/cook my food (look at G-1 vs G-1-NVG)???? Does not make sense--maybe I am missing something.

-Bill