Help With Wiring Diagram

Caneman
Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
I've attached a pic with a wiring diagram for my battery bank... not sure if it is correct, I would appreciate any recommendations so it will work properly and safely- thanks.

Picture1.gif
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Why are you showing a parallel purple connection around the shunt on neg line to inverter?

    If you want to have the battery monitor get the net yield in and out of the battery you can move charger to inverter side of shunt. As you have it now you are only monitoring what inverter consumes. Most battery monitors allow for a charge efficiency fudge factor that discounts 10-15% of average current going into battery during charging. This allows the battery monitor to give you a 'gas gauge' on the battery.
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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Exchange the placement of your negative buss bar (unlabeled, so I assume such) with that of the shunt. You have a redundant connection to the battery negative.

    RCinFLA is right. Connect the shunt to the battery negative. All other system connections should be made to the other side of the shunt.

    K
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Not sure how you got such a great view of your attachment.

    I modified it a bit, so the NEW LOCATION of the shunt, monitors what goes
    in and out of the battery.

    That's the simple change to do. Some put the shunt in the + lead, some in the -.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
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  • Caneman
    Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    I'm not sure why I made a parallel connection with the shunt, just a dumb a$$ beginner I guess ;) ... is this better:

    Battery_Diagram.gif


    How about the wire sizes, do they look big enough?
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  • Caneman
    Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    mike90045 wrote: »
    Not sure how you got such a great view of your attachment.

    I modified it a bit, so the NEW LOCATION of the shunt, monitors what goes
    in and out of the battery.

    That's the simple change to do. Some put the shunt in the + lead, some in the -.

    I really appreciate your help, but the thumbnail is too small and I can't see the detail of the changes.
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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Fundamentally, (I haven't looked at wire gauge, fuses and current) it is now correct.

    EDIT: On second look you should probably have purple form batt to buss on each side. EEs will confirm or refute.

    K
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  • Caneman
    Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    Kamala wrote: »
    Exchange the placement of your negative buss bar (unlabeled, so I assume such) with that of the shunt. You have a redundant connection to the battery negative.

    RCinFLA is right. Connect the shunt to the battery negative. All other system connections should be made to the other side of the shunt.

    K


    When you say "connect the shunt to the battery negative", do you mean place the shunt between the controller and the battery negative?
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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Yup. I missed that one. In order to take full advantage of your batt monitor's capabilities (I assume this is why you have a shunt) all current into and out of the battery must flow through it.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Re the shunt placement: put the shunt as close to the batt (-) terminal as possible BEFORE any input ( from the CC) and output (loads) so that it measures the in and out to/from the battery, not the draw of the inverter.

    Think of it being in the lead from the battery to a "T" in the line between the CC and the Load side (inverter)

    CC
    |
    |
    BM
    Batt
    |
    |
    Inverter

    Next I see that you have a AWG 4 line from the battery to the Buss then a 2/0 line to the inverter, I am thinking the #4 line is well undersized for the total load if you need a 2/0 for the inverter.

    HTH
    Eric
     
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    Caneman wrote: »
    I'm not sure why I made a parallel connection with the shunt, just a dumb a$$ beginner I guess ;) ... is this better:

    No. Measures only load, no recharge

    Click on the thumbnail, and open it. All my changes were at the bottom. Ah, you are posting to photobucket.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Caneman
    Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    I think I got it this time... will the battery monitor measure all current in and out of the battery bank:

    Picture2.gif


    Mike, sorry I couldn't see the details on the marked up diagram, will this one above work?

    Thanks!
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    The shunt goes between the battery negative and *everything else*. Nothing else connects to battery negative - except perhaps if you are grounding battery negative to a ground rod for safety.

    Battery Negative -> Shunt -> Inverter and/or Charger.

    In your diagram above, the shunt should be between the battery negative and the bus bar. The charger negative should connect to the bus bar.
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  • Caneman
    Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    dwh, like this?



    Picture3.gif
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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    That's it!

    But... if you need #2/0 to your inverter, you will also need the same gauge from +Bat to +Buss and from -Bat to shunt and from shunt to -Buss. And for battery interconnects. Your's is a series circuit and currents are equal through all strings. Monitor guage is OK as is CC.
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    Caneman wrote: »
    dwh, like this?

    Yes, that's fine. If it were me though, I'd probably run the charger positive to the positive bus bar and put a nice fat fuse between the battery positive and the positive bus bar.

    And like Kamala said, if you need #2 for the inverter, then the wire between the batteries, and also the wire from the batteries to the bus bars has to be at least that size as well.


    Also, there is #2, and there is 2/0 - but there is no #2/0.
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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #17
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    dwh wrote: »
    ... run the charger positive to the positive bus bar...

    Missed that, too. The function of a buss bar is to collect all circuits at a common point, making multiple connections to the battery terminals unnecessary.
    dwh wrote: »
    Also, there is #2, and there is 2/0 - but there is no #2/0.

    Also missed that. :blush:

    K
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  • Caneman
    Caneman Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Thanks you guys, that is awesome... if I read your posts correctly, this is how it looks:


    Picture4.gif




    If I added another 4 battery string would I wire the negative terminal of the string to the shunt and the positive terminal of the string to the + buss bar with another breaker on it?
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    Caneman wrote: »
    If I added another 4 battery string would I wire the negative terminal of the string to the shunt and the positive terminal of the string to the + buss bar with another breaker on it?


    Yes.

    Just make sure that all the wires on both battery strings are exactly the same size and length so that one string doesn't have a lower resistance than the other and end up doing more work (draining/recharging) than the other.
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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #20
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    Caneman wrote: »
    If I added another 4 battery string would I wire the negative terminal of the string to the shunt and the positive terminal of the string to the + buss bar with another breaker on it?

    Here's how I would configure the BB:

    And be sure that you draw current off of opposite ends of the parallel bank. DWH, you've got the smart gauge link handy, right? :blush:
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    If I added another 4 battery string would I wire the negative terminal of the string to the shunt and the positive terminal of the string to the + buss bar with another breaker on it?

    Connecting on the "diagonal" will extend the life of the batteries by helping share the loads. see : http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html Has sketches and text that explains why.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    #22
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram

    Ok... might have mike90045 that had the smartgauge thing goin'.
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #23
    Re: Help With Wiring Diagram
    Kamala wrote: »
    DWH, you've got the smart gauge link handy, right? :blush:

    Yup, and I checked it before posting. The thing is, it covers individual batteries into strings, but he was asking about multiple strings. Also, what he described was essentially "Method 3" but where the batteries are replaced by strings.

    Simply replacing the batteries in the Method 3 diagram with strings, eliminated any need for trying to work out a scheme for cross-wiring 8 batteries into a single string.


    Since he already had "Method 3" worked out, I didn't figure there was any need for the link.
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