Transitional electric blues

Hairfarm
Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
Greetings,

My wife and bought a small desert cabin. It's off the grid. http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=5166

We have begun working on the place. We plan to have a 2500 gal water tank installed soon for trucked in water. Then we plan to install one bathroom, shower, toilet, and sink. Also, there will be another sink in the kitchen area. The cabin in 25' x 24' sq ft. Again, two sinks, one toilet, one shower.

Here's our problem. Currently, we have dug a makeshift outhouse to use while we are constructing the plumbing etc. We also bring enough short term water for washing, cooking and drinking with.

However, after our 2500 gal water tank is installed, I want to be able to pump the water into the finished shower, toilet, and 2 sinks. I want to do this using a 5000watt gas generator. This is because we won't get around to installing our solar array to power the pump until much later in 2010, but we still want to enjoy the benefit of running water and showers by using the generator.

So, I'm thinking I need a pressure tank and an ON-Demand AC water pump (with three prong plug) to plug into the generator. Then all I have to do is start the generator when ever we need to wash dishes, use the toilet, or shower.

This way we can haul the generator with us and use it for water pumping power.

My questions are: What kind of pump and pressure tank do all of you use? Am I missing something with this setup? Is a 5000 watt generator going to harm an AC water pump? Should I use a surge protector? Please feel free to criticize anything I may be doing wrong.

I like the fact that I don't have to worry about solar panels getting stolen for the time being because we can just haul our generator out there for water pumping until we move out there full time to keep an eye on things so that we can install panels.

BTW, thanks for this great website.

Hairfarm
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Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    I'm thinking you might be going over-board on the pump. This tank full of water is at ground level? In that case you don't need a full-scale 'house type' water pump, because you're not having to 'lift' the water. I suggest you think about using a small, RV-type pump (like Shurflo) to pressurize your lines. With the right water-conserving shower head and toilet, you really only need to deliver around 3 gpm @ ~40 psi. This should be fairly easy to accomplish. Take a look at some of these:

    http://store.solar-electric.com/shacdcwapu.html

    In your case you could either get a 120 VAC pump and run it from the inverter or a 12 VDC pump and run it from a battery which would be re-charged by running the generator. In fact an often used interim step is to get the inverter & battery and re-charge from generator during the day, leaving you with 'quiet power' available at night. Then you save up for those oh-so-expensive solar panels. Keep in mind a 5kW gen can re-charge a lot of battery capacity in a hurry - so you'd run it for a short period of time, store up its output, and then shut down - saving both gas and noise.
  • Hairfarm
    Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    I'm thinking I need a system that will be more robust than a shurflow. I need to know what types of pumps will run off of a 5000watt AC generator. Anyone using a pump in this way...plugged into a generator. The highest point will be a shower head at about seven feet. We are at 2500 ft sea level too.

    In your case you could either get a 120 VAC pump and run it from the inverter or a 12 VDC pump and run it from a battery which would be re-charged by running the generator.

    Are you saying that I need an inverter to plug the AC water pump into?Is it possible to plug the AC pump straight into my generator?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    The smallest "house type" water pump you can get these days is 1/2 HP. It will require about 900 Watts running, and a nasty 1800 (or more - depends on the actual motor) to start. This varies with the actual amount of work it will have to do. In your application that won't be so bad as you're not having to lift water out of a 30' well.

    If you go this route, I suggest you get the biggest pressure tank you possibly can; it reduces the number of pump cycles. You could run the gen/pump, fill up a big 30 gallon pressure tank and have water most of the day without having to re-start the gen.

    Yes you can run any AC device directly from the generator. I suggested the inverter charge set-up because it would ultimately use less fuel and make less noise. 5kW is a lot of power, and the gen will use almost as much fuel putting out full power as it does at 1000 Watts just running the pump. Unlike the inverter gens which really throttle back when the loads are light.

    I used a 5kW gen for years for water: fired it up, ran the pump, filled the tank in just the way I described above. Ordinary household pump. Switched to running it off the inverter last year when I installed the new Outback 3524. And I'm at 3200 ft elev - yes, the power output from the gens goes down noticeably!
  • Hairfarm
    Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Cariboocoot

    Thanks for the good advice.

    I should have mentioned that this is a weekend home that will be used about one weekend per month. So I'm not too worried about using gas to fill a pressure tank occasionally. This will be a temporary set up until we go full solar/propane.
    I suggested the inverter charge set-up because it would ultimately use less fuel and make less noise. 5kW is a lot of power, and the gen will use almost as much fuel putting out full power as it does at 1000 Watts just running the pump. Unlike the inverter gens which really throttle back when the loads are light.


    What is an Inverter Gen? And could you point me to a pressure tank and pump product recommendation for my set up?
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    There are water transfer pumps, sump pumps, sewage pumps and pressure pumps. You can get them with all sorts of different motor sizes, and pumping efficiency. I discovered a sewage pump was the fastest, low power (@ 3/4hp) to transfer water from rain catchment barrels, to a larger storage tank. [not planning on pumping sewage with it either - I'm keeping that clean] Many variables on lift and volume.
    I had the best luck using Amazon as a browsing source, to chose one

    And, as long as you are within your generators limits (say 4Kw at altitude) , you should not burn up any pump motors [while you have water]
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    Cariboocoot

    Thanks for the good advice.

    I should have mentioned that this is a weekend home that will be used about one weekend per month. So I'm not too worried about using gas to fill a pressure tank occasionally. This will be a temporary set up until we go full solar/propane.

    If you are going to go solar at some point, then you might as well plan the system that way from the beginning. What you have is basically a non-mobile motorhome and so a motorhome-style water setup will not only work fine, but it will be compatible with the solar when you finally get around to setting it up.

    Why spend the money for a big AC powered water pump which will almost certainly be way too much drain on your solar system?

    You say you want something more robust than a ShurFlo...I've got a 1976 camper van with the original ShurFlo in it that is still going strong. Just last week I found someone parting out a '73 Winnebago and I went and got the accumulator tank and pressure switch out of it (my camper didn't come with either). They both work fine.

    What is an Inverter Gen?

    An "inverter gen" is a generator that generates "wild" AC, converts it to DC, then inverts that back to "stable" AC. The advantage is that the AC waveform is not tied to the engine speed - unlike regular generators which usually MUST run at either 1800 or 3600 rpm (depending on make/model) to make a 60 cycle wave.

    With a regular generator, the throttle opens up under load to keep the generator at that magic rpm, but even with no load at all they are still burning along at full rpm.

    Inverter gens use a stepper motor to throttle up and down based on load. So with an inverter gen at 1/4 load (say 500 watts load on a 2000w gen), the *engine* is running at 1/4 speed. They save a LOT on fuel.

    The most popular inverter gen is beyond a doubt the Honda EU2000i which is 1600w continuous, 2000w surge, though Honda makes them in sizes from 1000w up to 6500w. Two EU2000i can be connected together to get 3200w/4000w when needed.

    Yamaha also makes them in various sizes - most common is probably the EF2400i, Robin Subaru makes the R1700i, Northshore Power markets a decent Chinese unit under the Honeywell name, the HW2000i. Kipor also makes one, which is new to the US and not popular due to the current lack of service and support, though they are apparently pretty common in Europe. There are also quite a few different lowbuck Chinese inverter gens out there, such as the ETQ.

    Inverter gens are also usually a lot quieter - even at full load - than a regular gen.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Inverter Generators are the Honda eu1000i, eu2000i, eu3000i and other manufactures like Yamaha, and knockoffs.

    Basically, the generator runs a normal 3 phase alternator (no fixed voltage or frequency)--that then powers a TSW inverter that outputs the fixed 120 vac 60 Hz output.

    This allows the motor to throttle back and run at a solar speed when running light loads, and to throttle up to run heavy loads.

    A "normal" genset uses about 50% fuel flow at 50% an lower power usage.

    The Honda eu2000i (seems to be one of the most efficient) will run just a bit more than 25% fuel flow at 25% load...

    A 5kW genset is fuel efficient down to 2.5 kWatts of load.

    A eu2000i is fuel efficient down to 400 watts of load (or a bit less).

    Your small cabin would probably average closer to a 400-1,600 watt load vs a 2.5kW to 5.0kW load.

    A 5kW genset will run (very roughly) 2-1 hours (1/2 load to 5kWatt) per gallon of fuel.

    A eu2000i will run 15 hours to 4 hours (1/4 load to 1,600 watt) on 1.1 gallons of fuel.

    A small genset may match your loads and use less fuel for general use.

    You can still get a big noisy genset for large loads (shop tools, etc.) and emergency backup.

    Using the genset to charge a battery is not more efficient by itself (you have additional battery, charger, and inverter losses)--however, it allows you to run the "big genset" at 50% or more load for a few hours a day (well pumping, vacuuming, perhaps an A/C system).

    For the rest of the time, when you only need a few hundred watts (lighting, fan, local pressure pump, radio/tv/computer) you can use your battery/inverter system for quite / relatively fuel efficient power use.

    Later, you can add solar panels to replace genset run-time as living situation and finances permit.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Inverter Generator; a small generator that makes use of inverter technology such as the Honda eu200i I have. (Where's that glossary of terms someone suggested? Oh ... it was me, wasn't it?)

    In your case you've got enough gen power to run any standard domestic water pump. You also don't need much, as all you're trying to do is move it from a tank to pressurize lines: no 'lift' involved.

    All you really need is a standard 1/2HP "shallow well" pump and the biggest pressure tank you can afford (there's no sense in buying smaller than 10 gallon tank for any such application). It will have no trouble supplying you with plenty of water at really good pressure. Lift, flow rate, and pressure are trade-offs in water pumping. You have virtually no lift, only need 3 gpm for standard taps, and 50 psi max pressure. This is o easy to achieve!

    BTW, for extra capacity you can put multiple pressure tanks together, but they should all be the same size/type and located on the same level as close together as possible.
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    We use a 1/2 hp jet pump (like from Lowes or Home Depot) to pressurize our (2) bladder pressure tanks from our cistern (your 2500 gal tank). Years ago we powered it with a generator. Then later on we powered it with an MSW inverter until the pump failed (MSW isn't good for motors). Now the replacement is powered with a true sine wave inverter.

    I also have a Shurflo 12V pump paralleling the jet pump. If there's a pump problem, I can change some valves and fill the bladder tanks with the Shurflo. Yes, it takes "awhile" for it to reach max pressure, but since the shower and everything comes off the pressure tanks, there's plenty of flow once the Shurflo has been pumping for awhile.

    And I am one of "those" that started with generator only and a few years later migrated to an inverter and battery bank (charged when the gen was running for washer/dryer/well). It was probably 15 years until I got my first solar panels and I've added panels and controllers every 2 - 3 years since, as the budget allows and as our power appetite grows (this summer we got air conditioning - instead of using swamp coolers; a year and a half ago we bought a 'real' refrigerator and sold the two propane units we'd been using).

    Since you are hauling water in (we've done that part too) you'll want one of the water saver shower nozzles (yeah... I know... but she'll get used to it!).

    Phil
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Just thought of this: with a 2500 gallon tank, depending on its shape and where it's located in respect to the cabin, there will be a lot of "head" pressure on the line anyway; you may not even need a pump. You may, in fact, need a pressure reducer to keep the weight of 20 tons of water from blowing your plumbing apart.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    I think the cabin is on the desert floor and several miles away from any "high points" to put the tank (from the picture in the other thread).

    Choice is to install a pressure system (demand pump/pressure tank/etc.) or a water tank tower (like you see around old homestead farms).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Even on the flat it could be a problem. I remember using a 500 gallon tank for emergency water at one location; dropped 10' to feed the pump. You didn't need to turn the pump on when the tank was full!

    If this is a long, low tank probably not too troublesome. The taller & thinner it is, the more weight bearing down on a bottom outlet. This can be avoided if you can draw out of the top of the tank (suck water off the bottom, up through a pipe, down to the pump - sort of like taking it out of a well).

    Sorry; it's hard to be specific under the circumstances. Just trying to give the OP a "heads up" on potential issues.
  • Hairfarm
    Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Great info guys.

    We will graduate to solar eventually next year, but I like the idea of using a 1/2hp pump that I can plug into my 5000watt generator to fill a pressure tank. We're only going to be there one weekend per month, and only using the generator to fill the pressure tank once or twice a day.

    Why spend the money for a big AC powered water pump which will almost certainly be way too much drain on your solar system?

    I know this, but I need something in the immediate to pump water to the cabin plumbing until we can afford a solar set-up. I already own a 5000 watt generator, all I need to do is to buy a pump and pressure tank. I can use the re-purpose the pressure tank on a Solar powered system and will replace the AC motor with DC when the time comes.

    Fuel efficiency isn't really a problem because we don't live there full time. I just want to be able to take the generator with me when I go out there and bring it back so it doesn't get stolen.


    But I still would like to know:

    Can I plug the 1/2 hp AC motor directly into the 5000watt generator without blowing it up and can someone please suggest a jet-type AC pump that is on demand, preferably with a three pronged plug for my gen. I can't seem to turn up anything useful when I Google.
  • Hairfarm
    Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    This is close to the tank that I'll be installing: http://www.watertanks.com/drawing/3301/product/5000-020/

    My neighbor uses the same set up, (pressure tanks with AC pump) but he's on grid and I don't want to pay the repugnant fee of $20,000 that SCE wants to pull grid utility poles and wiring to my cabin.

    So, I'm going solar. But for now, during the construction phase, I just need a good recommendation for a motor and pressure tank system. I know there won't be enough pressure in the tank alone. Mainly because it sits on ground level and the water exit is on the ground.

    Our cabin.
    http://www.sitnsail.com/hairfarm/Otherstuff/Cabin/0626291510000.jpg
    There are no hills nearby, and the nearest utility pole is roughly 4-5 hundred yards away.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    The AC Genset just outputs the normal 120 / 240 VAC 60 Hz. There are typically different rated outputs on the generator--varies by brand and model (15 amp 120 vac, 30 amp 120 vac, 30 amp 240 vac, etc.)...

    The big issue is you don't want to use a light duty cord rated for use on a 15 amp circuit on a 30+ amp protected outlet (to reduce the chance of fire if there is a short in the motor/starting cap).

    Jet-pumps tend to be energy wasters--but it may not matter for you at this point (lots of generator power).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    But I still would like to know:

    Can I plug the 1/2 hp AC motor directly into the 5000watt generator without blowing it up and can someone please suggest a jet-type AC pump that is on demand, preferably with a three pronged plug for my gen. I can't seem to turn up anything useful when I Google.

    That generator will run any off-the-shelf shallow well pump, no problem. Just wire it with a "line cord" and plug it in. You don't need a jet pump (often "convertible jet pump"): that is a little trick for getting a few more feet of lift out of small pumps. It sends some of the pressurized water back down the well and squirts it up the intake. This causes the water to move faster, lowering the pressure inside the intake pipe and allowing the atmosphere to push more water up to the pump. I might as well say it: these types of pump don't "pump"; they change the relative pressure between the source and destination. The Bernoulli Principal at work!

    There is probably going to be a pressure switch already on the pump. That's fine if the pressure tank is near the pump as well. If the distance between the two is long, say more than about ten feet, you'll get 'cycling' caused by the line pressurizing and shutting the pump down before the tank fills - the surge from the pump can cause brief increase in pressure to 'shut off' point for the local switch. Then you need to put the switch at the tank so it shuts the motor down when the tank is pressurized.

    Where to buy a pump? Local plumbing supply, most larger hardware stores, "big box" stores like Home Depot ... maybe even Walmart. Up here we'd start with Canadian Tire (sorry - inside Canadian joke :p)
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Forgot to mention: the problem with using this type of pump is that when you do switch to solar you'll be using a lot more power to move water than is actually necessary. In other words, with the Shurflo-style pump you could accomplish the same thing water-wise, and still be able to meet your other electrical requirements with about 2kW less of an inverter.
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    Can I plug the 1/2 hp AC motor directly into the 5000watt generator without blowing it up and can someone please suggest a jet-type AC pump that is on demand, preferably with a three pronged plug for my gen. I can't seem to turn up anything useful when I Google.

    The jet pump I have could be plugged into a 5kw generator with no problem. It came with the pressure switch. IIRC there were two models at Lowes, the difference being the cut-in and cut-off pressure. I went for the higher pressure of the two models.

    These pumps are so commonplace I wouldn't bother with Google... and THAT is unusual for me. go to Lowes.com and do a product search for "jet pump" and look at the ones that say "convertible" and "1/2hp".

    Phil
  • Hairfarm
    Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    ...and another stupid question:

    How does the pump know when to switch itself off after filling the pressure tank?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    There is a water pressure switch that "turns on" at ~20 psi and "turns off" at ~40 psi (or whatever the settings are you will be using).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    BB. wrote: »
    There is a water pressure switch that "turns on" at ~20 psi and "turns off" at ~40 psi (or whatever the settings are you will be using).

    -Bill

    And they're adjustable; just take the cover off and loosen or tighten the spring tensioner underneath. (It'll be obvious when you see it.)
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    ...and another stupid question:

    How does the pump know when to switch itself off after filling the pressure tank?


    I got busy but wanted to add:

    That pump I got at Lowes was made in China, I'm guessing. The pressure switch was cheaply made. It failed less than a year later ... when we were out of town on a trip and we had someone house sitting. Their last day there they had no water. I hadn't left instructions for putting the 12V pump online, since that one was less than a year old.

    I replaced the pressure switch with a SquareD and it's been fine since.

    I just got back from a long weekend beer hunting and our Magnum inverter got overloaded (wife remembered what NOT to run at the same time a little too late). Fortunately a friend came up and after awhile figured out how to reset the Magnum (the remote is a few feet away... they thought it was a radio).

    I've began making a manual for our power and water systems. I saw the suggestion on this forum IIRC recently and should've done it last week.

    Phil
  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    PhilS wrote: »
    ... I just got back from a long weekend beer hunting ...

    My kinda sportsman! Wudja get? A 6, 12 or 24. Maybe a 30! I go whiskey hunting a cupala time a week . ;)

    K
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    Kamala wrote: »
    My kinda sportsman! Wudja get? A 6, 12 or 24. Maybe a 30! I go whiskey hunting a cupala time a week . ;) K

    :p Did the 30 but came back with some due to an excess of whisky :p

    Saw bear and deer and everybody came back with the same number of kills as usual --- 0

    I had a great time tho, as did everybody else except my buddy that took his 35' fifthwheel "hunting" for the first time since he bought it a few years ago. He got a total of 4 blowouts, 1 on the way up, 3 on the way back.

    We were in the high country of NoCal almost to Oregon. Much more treed than the OP's area. But game would be easier to see in that high desert environment!

    Sorry, Hairfarm, for the little hijack.

    Phil
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    While pressure tank switches are adjustable, they are only adjustable to a point. They come in different configs, say 20-40, or 30-50 or 40-60 psi and I am sure others. Bigger question is how many DC amps will a square D pressure switch can carry. I have been advised that running them on ~ 1/10 the rated amps for DC should be fine.

    Tony
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    I don't know what other people were talking about, but I was talking about AC pumps since the OP is primarily getting his power from a generator.
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Yeah, Tony, the OP is using AC for the pump, as do I.

    Phil
  • Hairfarm
    Hairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues
    Yeah, Tony, the OP is using AC for the pump, as do I.

    This is correct. I'm using a 5000 watt generator as a TEMPORARY power source for an AC 1/2 HP water pump. This is so we can fill our pressure tank and use our plumbing until we can afford the solar arrays necessary to power our cabin, including the plumbing. When we do go full solar/propane, then I'll remove the AC pump from the water system and install a more efficient DC pump to fill the pressure tank.

    I realize that a gas generator and an AC pump is wasteful. but we'll only be at our cabin one weekend per month. I only need to use the generator to fill the pressure tank once or twice a day, correct? Additionally, I don't have to worry about expensive solar panels getting stolen since I'm not out there all the time. The nice thing about the generator is that I can haul it to and from our cabin when I go up there to stay. When I live there full time, then I can keep a better eye on the solar panels.

    That said, I need to figure out a way to run another connection from the downwind side of the pressure tank to the exterior of the cabin so that I can use a garden hose outside.

    Does this sound workable?

    thanks,
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    Pressure tank like this:

    http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=940860&Ntt=940860&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

    This is what I have and it works well. How often you'll have to refill it depends on your water needs. You can put two or more together if you need lots of capacity, but they're expensive so it's probably cheaper to just restart the gen as needed.

    There's no "downwind" side of a pressure tank: single connector. It fills with water and pushes it back out under pressure, which is why you'll need a check valve between the pump and the pressure tank - otherwise it'll empty itself back through the pump if the pressure is less out there (may not be a problem with 2500 gallons of water behind the pump intake).

    'T' to run garden house is simple plumbing.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Transitional electric blues

    If you only use the cabin for holidays and weekends, you could consider adding a second or even a third Pressure tank, live with the 120vac pump and gennie, run the gennie and pump for 1/2 a day to fill the tank(s). A 50 gal (Nominal) give us enough water for two people for a whole day most days. Long showers maybe the pump kicks on once more. (No flush toilets)

    3 P tanks tied together would give you ~100 gallons of useable water, more than enough to only have to pump once a day in most cases. We lived for 40 years with a gravity tank, filled with a gasoline pump from the lake, pumped up the hill, ran back down. 50 gallons lasted at least one day. The only reason we went to the lake submersible is so we can have running water all winter.

    Tony