Any One try a Bread machine?

Photowhit · August 2009

Well, Summer is coming to and end and I typically go back to only needing a very minimal amount of Electric. So I'm looking at what I can throw at my system.

System is @1250 watt array, ineffiecent C60 CC, tiny 4 golfcart battery battery bank, and an 1800 watt true sinewave inverter.

I don't think I'll have a problem, I have a small grill thats @400 watts I use from time to time, a similar resistive load, the machine is rated at 450 watts (breadman ultimate 2200)

The heat will be welcome in the winter, I'd plan on cooking mainly during the day. I work evenings mostly.

Now I wonder if I can really push things with my Grain Mill! 8Amps at 120volts... cranking it up will be interesting, once running I don't think it'll be a problem. It doesn't run long does @ a cup a minute.

Since the batteries live out doors I doubt I'll try to do evening cooking unless it's a warm night....

niel · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

are you asking for more loads for your system, as that's easy to do?

mike95490 · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

Photowhit wrote: »

tiny 4 golfcart battery battery bank,

Your batteries may not have enough ommpph to power the grain mill.

8A @ 120V = 80A @ 12V

Cariboocoot · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

There are basically three problems with adding heavy loads to a solar power system (says the man who keeps adding heavy loads to his solar power system):

1). Can the inverter handle it? 1800 Watts is just about one standard AC outlet at peak capacity. Whereas it may handle any one given load, collectively they could be a problem. You don't want everything shutting down because the 'frige kicked on.

2). Will the batteries take the strain? You have to have enough Amp/hr capacity to supply the current without a significant drop in Voltage. True deep cycles aren't good at handling sudden, heavy draws but usually if there's enough over-capacity it won't matter. A "tiny" battery bank could be a problem.

3). Can the array provide sufficient charging power to replace the used energy in a reasonable amount of time? Ideally it could supply the capacity to run all devices and recharge the batteries after night time usage. Otherwise you use your bread machine and have to start the generator or else there's no lights that night.

The only other precaution is to be sure wire and fuses are sized correctly. I've seen some discussion on this forum about people who are only using their inverters for small loads, so they scrimp on wire sizes. This shows exactly the problem with that practice: lack of capacity for future expansion.

My own case: 700 Watts of panels, 320 Amp/hrs of battery, 3500 Watt inverter. I run electric 'frige (~200 Watts), desktop computer set-up (~200 Watts), electric water pump (~800 Watts), electric sump pump (~1000 Watts), and now a microwave (~1050 Watts). My evaluation of my own system is: not enough panels, not enough battery. I have to make sure everything doesn't come on at once (pumps have switches so they are turned on only when there's sufficient power) and the generator is necessary to keep charging up because of all the usage, not just because of the forest fire smoke currently clouding the sky.

P.S.: Just made bread yesterday. No bread machine, no electricity involved. Had to burn some wood to get it warm enough to rise. Baked with propane. The mixing energy came from elbow grease. Much better than store-bought or machine made!

Photowhit · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

I actually have a 1/4 sheet propane oven(9x13 about a large toaster oven) just wanted to save the gas, since I have an over abundance of electric after AC season.

I Wasn't thinking about the voltage drop on the grain mill, it'll likely get me if it doesn't have some soft start tech. Not worried about the power use as in 5 minutes I'd have a weeks worth of flour.

My collection of high draw items is growing slowly, AC - 440 watts, Grill - 400 watts, microwave 900watts, and now bread machine. My bread machine has a bake only and will do Meat loaf as well!

I just replaced my fridge, I had a neat little 5cu ft? fridge about 4 feet high with a seperate freezer section. It had the thermostate (chiller) go out and after $90 repair it lasted a very short time before, I guess, the compressor went out (dead short) So I just replaced it finally with an even smaller fridge that has a seperate freezer section;

http://www.nfm.com/DetailsPage.aspx?ProductID=25585027

This one is reported to be even more energy effiecient than my old one (It is smaller) but draws .68A @110v my old one was a tad over 100watts, the seperate freezer section is great on these small fridges, the freezer require defrost rarely maybe every 4 months compared to monthly on the ones with the useless freezer in the same compartment.

I don't even have it home yet, I'm house sitting for some friends, so we could take bets on the grain mill before I get a chance to try it out. For full disclosure the batteries are 4 years old!

mike95490 · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

On a fridge, it's not how much it draws, it's how OFTEN it draws it. If it runs 24/7 - that can be a LOT of power over time, but only a little bit now.

niel · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

mike90045 wrote: »

On a fridge, it's not how much it draws, it's how OFTEN it draws it. If it runs 24/7 - that can be a LOT of power over time, but only a little bit now.

actually, it is both how much and how often. that's the basis of watt hours. with electric motors it is the peak inrush power when first turned on as well that may figure into what wattage capacity some inverters need to be.

Photowhit · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

niel wrote: »

actually, it is both how much and how often. that's the basis of watt hours. with electric motors it is the peak inrush power when first turned on as well that may figure into what wattage capacity some inverters need to be.

And lets call the time it runs "Duty Cycle"

And the current when running "Draw"

The new one is actually Energy Star rated but the old one was not, it was bigger putting it into a different catagory, as one of the smallest in the catagory...

niel · August 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

sounds good.
yes, i have been looking over some refrigs and even going by the estimated $ usage of electric it seemed odd that the energy star refrig sometimes costs more to run, but it is differences in interior size too. the side by sides draw allot from my observations even if e star.

2manytoyz · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

To answer your original question, yes I've tried a bread machine...

All of these figures were actually measured.

548 Watts during bake cycle. Run time 3.34 hours. Total Wattage 0.29 KW (only bakes a brief portion of the total time). Brand: Breadman. Model: TR2500BC

As for other cooking methods via alt-power, here's a comparison I did with my various Crock Pots: http://www.2manytoyz.com/crock.html

Refrigerator in garage: Not running but on: Less than 1 Watt. Compressor running: 114-140 Watts. Total per day: 1.15 KW, 47.92 Watts per hour average. This fridge is 1 year newer than the one below, and not a side by side.

Refrigerator in house: Compressor running: 146 Watts. Defrost: 572 Watts. Total per day 2.15 KW, 89.58 Watts per hour average. 2006 model, side by side.

Microwave oven running: 1670 Watts on high (13.91 Amps).

Ice Tea machine. 700 Watts for about 10 minutes.

Toaster. 750 Watts for about 5 minutes.

All of these items have run from my Prosine 1800 Watt inverter from 6 golf cart type batteries. Key thing is NOT all at once!

I've paired up the batteries to make 12V, and connected 3 strings to heavy copper buss bars. Each pair shares the load. All cables are #2, and are all 32", keeping everything balanced. While heavily loading the inverter, I used a DC clamp-on ammeter to verify the draw on each pair was roughly equivalent.

I've also done laundry with my inverter: http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/altwashclothes2manytoyz.htm

You can do a lot with a small setup, provided you don't try to do it all at once.

niel · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

what happened to using kilo watt hours (kwh)?
is your side by side an energy star? in any case that's pretty sad consumption and was part of my point that they don't do well.

2manytoyz · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

"We" know KWH, but not everyone does. I cut and pasted most of this info from one of my webpages, where less savvy folks visit.

I don't recall if it is Energy Star rated or not. Don't see one of those logos on the front, but will google the P/N later to find out.

When I bought this fridge, I was more concerned about features that the wife would be interested in. I didn't have solar panels and a battery bank in 2006!

The no frills model in the garage was a freebie. A friend sold their coffee shop, along with all the equipment. I helped him setup the shop the year earlier, and dismantle it a year later after the lack of business. Again, don't see the logo, so will look this one up as well.

The numbers are more amazing than they first appear. The fridge in the house lives in a 74-78 degree environment. The one in the garage lives in an 85-94 degree environment, yet uses half the power of the other.

I've looked at smaller refrigerators (including dorm sized), and the numbers usually aren't much better than the full sized one in my garage.

Photowhit · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

I have been home for a bit now, I had no problem cranking up the motor in the Grain Mill, though rated at 10 amps per info sticker, it draws @ 4 with out a load so I don't think it'll be a problem, all I have on hand right now is soft wheat which I could rub together in my hands and have flour...

I've got the older breadman TR2200 which sticker says 440 watts. Nice to know it should be no problem, thanks every one!

Now to make a solar oven out of the awesome 3/4" thick cardboard the new panels came in this summer!

niel · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

2mtoyz,
yes let me know what you find out as this kind of stuff is always interesting (to me anyway) and the temp diff also puts a twist to it as an air conditioned environment is sort of cheating as the a/c is helping to keep the refrig cool.
what's the make and model numbers of them both?

Ralph Day · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

Photowit,
I used a breadmaker for years, until it self destructed. Just using the mixing capability and baking in the propane oven worked best. Instead of one large dense/tough loaf you could get 2 smaller lighter loaves out of the batch. It still used some power for heating up the contents before the mix started (on dough setting).

Ralph

2manytoyz · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

niel wrote: »

2mtoyz,
yes let me know what you find out as this kind of stuff is always interesting (to me anyway) and the temp diff also puts a twist to it as an air conditioned environment is sort of cheating as the a/c is helping to keep the refrig cool.
what's the make and model numbers of them both?

Sorry for the delay in responding. We were RVing over the long weekend.

Here's the info on the side by side, which IS an Energy Star rated product, despite being a power pig. P/N ed5jhgxrq00

Here's the info on the fridge in my garage, which is NOT Energy Star rated, at least I couldn't find the logo anywhere. This is a very efficient refrigerator compared to the other, especially since it lives in a hot environment by comparison. FWIW, I found the owners manual online, couldn't find any mention of it being Energy Star rated either.

dwh · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

That looks very much like the fridge I gave my mom for Christmas back in 2001. I recognize the water filter cover. Note: If the o-ring on the water filter element is cock-eyed, the fridge will leak all over the floor.

Sears had the same unit under both the Kenmore and Whirlpool names. I chose the Whirlpool for a specific reason:

The ice bucket is in the door.

There is a motor-driven shaft which comes up into the bottom of the ice bucket and mates with the shaft of the feed/grind blade.

The top of that shaft has three teeth cut in it, to mate with matching teeth in the shaft of the feed/grinder blade.

On the Kenmore floor demo model, one of the teeth on the motor shaft was sheared off.

When I inspected the Whirlpool, it had an improved design - it had a metal sleeve sticking up around the motor shaft which kept the blade shaft and motor shaft aligned.

So I bought the Whirlpool with the improved design.

niel · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

i don't see that particular power pig listed on the energy star site and does not even show it to be a discontinued model. it is obvious though in comparing the 2 refrigs that the side by side doesn't fair well for the cu ft covered.

2manytoyz · September 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

niel wrote: »

the side by sides draw allot from my observations even if e star.

Right on the money. Doesn't seem like it should be the case since my side by side is energy star and indoors, but the other one faired MUCH better.

bobdog · October 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

Cariboocoot wrote: »

...My own case: 700 Watts of panels, 320 Amp/hrs of battery, 3500 Watt inverter. I run electric 'frige (~200 Watts), desktop computer set-up (~200 Watts), electric water pump (~800 Watts), electric sump pump (~1000 Watts), and now a microwave (~1050 Watts)...

Tried to PM, but no go..So,

Just curious is the 320 Amp/hrs of batteries your 50% or total? And what style/brand are they? I ask because I thought I was seriously under-batteried and under paneled...Thanks.

Tim

Cariboocoot · October 2009

Re: Any One try a Bread machine?

bobdog wrote: »

Tried to PM, but no go..So,

Just curious is the 320 Amp/hrs of batteries your 50% or total? And what style/brand are they? I ask because I thought I was seriously under-batteried and under paneled...Thanks.

Tim

Those batteries are are total - depending on which set of specs you get from the company (*sigh* warning sign right there) they are 190 or 160 Amp/hrs each - Interstate SRM-4D. Worked fine until a plate shorted out in one of them.

If I had it to do over, which apparently I now do (without choice), I'd buy Trojan 105 or L16's. Bargain batteries in this case turned out to be a false economy.

Any One try a Bread machine?

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