Replacement generator. Help

tripster
tripster Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Hello all...

I have a bit of a problem. Our Honda EM5000 purchased in 1997 finally bit the dust. Suddenly stopped working. We took it in to our Honda dealer and they quoted $1500 for an engine rebuild. They said an replacement for that model would be around $3000. Was wondering if we really need a 5000 watt genny. We are running a Xantrex PS2524 inverter off of a 600ah 24v bank. I believe the max charger output is 75 amps. Could we get away with a Honda EU3000? We have 600 watts of PV, but it's not enough.

Thanks for any suggestions.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    Your Charger: 75A into a 24V battery bank = 1,800W Maybe 1900w for the first minute. (your 600W pv = ~25a?)

    If you are not in a really hot area (your genset has refreshing air to cool with, not
    110F desert heat) An EU2000 would likely work, after 10 minutes or so, your charge amps will start to drop, and you will be below the 75% long runtime favored sweet spot.
    But if you are over 500' above sea level, you should step up to the 3000.

    That's my take on it. Well within the EU3000 spec.

    (hopefully, the power factor on your charger is very close to 1.0, the further from 1, the more power you need to have available, maybe a EU3000. Dang Power Factor stuff.)

    Maybe the dealer will let you "try a loaner" ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #3
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    If your charger is 10+ years too... Then it probably has a poor power factor. If you assume a 30 volt maximum charge voltage, 0.6 PF and 80% efficiency:

    75Amp * 30 volts * 1/0.6 * 1/0.80 = 4687.5 VA (Volt*Amps)

    So--a 5kW genset is not a bad choice using existing hardware.

    If, your battery bank was not too large, you could use a charger sized to ~5% of your banks 20 Hour Rate, a new AC charger with Power Factor Correction (PF~1.0), you might be able to use a smaller (and more fuel efficient) genset.

    The genset would have to run longer, but overall, you may use less fuel.

    What is the size (amp*hours) of your battery bank, and have you ever measured the fuel flow (gallons per hour or whatever) & AC current into your charger?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    One point on EU3000i inverter/generator is the output is a push-pull H-bridge, meaning it is not intended for neutral side grounding.

    I know people are probably doing it but the least is possible shock from generator chassis, the worst is blowing the inverter electronics in the generator.

    I have a Yamaha EF3000i which is similar to Honda EU3000i. I feed it into Trace SW4048 inverter but do it through two 2KW isolation transformer.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Replacement generator. Help
    tripster wrote: »
    Xantrex PS2524 inverter

    Not having a Secret Decoder Ring today, I just looked up the ProSine 2.5, and the charger section reads: 50A, .99PF (24v model)

    IF this is the inverter/charger you have, the EU2000 will be fine.
    28v x 50A = 1400W

    from doc:

    CHARGER
    Battery capacity selections 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 300,
    400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 1000,
    1200, 1400, 1700, >2000

    Charge Rate 12V (24V) 100A (50A)
    Charger Power Factor Rating .99
    Charger Efficiency > 80%
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    Ouch - watch that grounding. Good point RCinFLA.

    Dang generator specmanship:

    Limit operation requiring maximum power to 30 minutes.
    Maximum power is: 2.0 kVA
    For continuous operation, do not exceed the rated power.
    Rated power is: 1.6 kVA
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    I could be wrong, but isn't the PS2524 the same as the SW2524 but with less control options? If so you could set the charge amps down a bit and get by with the EU 2000i.

    The reason I would go with the EU2000i is weight, size and compatibility. They seem to quickly becoming a standard genset so obtaining parts should be much easier. Having said that the EU3000i will work quite nicely as well. Either of these will get you better efficiency than a straight up genset, even compared to the Honda you had. And much quieter as well.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #8
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    Big difference among the Honda's--The eu2000i/eu1000i are both pull start. The bigger ones are (probably) electric start.. May or may not be for your family.

    If you are looking for a new generator--would another fuel source option be nice for you (propane, diesel, etc.)?

    And/or adding more solar panels and getting the smaller/cheaper genset assuming you will be using it less? Solar panels are getting, almost, cheap now.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,891 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Replacement generator. Help

    Sure use the EU3000! If you really have a 600AH battery, rated at the 20 hour rate, you should be limiting the charge current to 60 amps DC for longest battery life. The next size up is the 6500 watt Honda inverter. Either way A1 products!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Replacement generator. Help
    RCinFLA wrote: »
    One point on EU3000i inverter/generator is the output is a push-pull H-bridge, meaning it is not intended for neutral side grounding.

    I know people are probably doing it but the least is possible shock from generator chassis, the worst is blowing the inverter electronics in the generator.

    Ouch... Is this the case for the EU2000i as well? I have to tie neutral and ground together to make my furnace happy - if they aren't connected, it keeps "pulsing" the combustion blower fan for some reason. I've had the neutral and ground tied together (jumpered in a plug, plugged into one of the outlets on the generator) for about a year now, with no problems. I run it about an hour a month to keep it healthy.
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