Static Vinyl

Re: Static Vinyl

niel wrote: »

yes, vinyl has an r factor, but it is really low and not worth using it for insulation purposes. believe or not even steel has an r factor, but i wouldn't want to insulate with that either.

From what I understand though, vinyl is a somewhat decent insulator though... I mean, not like real insulation, but putting real insulation in your windows isn't really feasable either. The main benefit to using the vinyl would be using the reflective window film on it so you could put reflective film on the windows during the summer, but remove it in the winter when you do want solar gain.

Re: Static Vinyl

mike90045 wrote: »

>I'd stick with the regular window films, whatever tint, and see if that helps.

My problem there is that I live in an inbetween climate. I spend about the same on heating as I do cooling for the year. So if I put a reflective tint on the windows, I might save some money on cooling during the summer, but I'll have to spend that same amount on extra heating in the winter. So the only way it would be economical for me is if I could remove the film every winter... hence the static vinyl idea.

Re: Static Vinyl

icarus wrote: »

Neil,

To beat a dead horse,,

When we here are advising people about PV, we tell them that conservation is their cheapest Pv dollar, and to "Do the math".

My point is that, all else being equal,, if you "Do the math" regarding windows, money spent on exotic glazings (beyond double glazed) is usually better spent somewhere else. If the reality here is to use the FEWEST BTUs to heat (or cool) then there is way more bang for the buck with added, even superinsulating other parts of the structure.

For example, instead of spending $1000 on triple glazing to save 100,000BTUs annually, if you spent the same $1000 to go from R-38 to R-60 in the ceiling might save 1 million BTUs. (I made up all these numbers to illustrate the point,,,as I away say,,"Do the math!")

Tony

PS Other technologies have an even more impressive payoff. Air to air exhaust heat exchangers, window quilts and pop in panels etc are even cheaper and give a better bang for the buck.

T

PPS. This discussion assumes new or remodel construction. New windows are of course cheaper than adding more insulation to the outside walls of an existing house. On the other hand, in a typical attic space, adding blow in fibreglass is cheap, easy and very effective, as is adding a layer under the floor.

$1000 is a bit high... I was thinking it would run more along the lines of $25-50... which isn't enough to pay for more insulation. If I had $1000 to spend, I would just add reflective insulation to the inside of the roof studs, then blow in some more insulation... OR get a solar panel. The point in doing this is that even if it doesn't have as much value, it's a cheap enough "upgrade" that I can afford to do it. Because until the economy turns around, I'm on a pretty strict home improvement budget... and I've done most of the other cheap stuff already, or already have it on my to-do list.

For example: I've already made the switch to CFL's for all lightbulbs except the fridge, oven, and outdoor floodlights. I installed both timers and motion detectors on the floodlights so they are only energized at night, and then only when motion activated. I installed foam outlet/switch insulators on all outlets, switches, cable-hookups, and phonejacks. I installed "childproof" plug inserts to further insulate the outlets. I installed a second layer of insulation on the inside of the attached garage door (unheated space unless in use, but the walls between the house and garage are thin, so there was still a lot of heatloss through the garage). Installed R-19 batts in the attic over the garage. Installed plastic sheeting over the windows (with dead air space) (this was from one of those "window kits"). Installed two insulation blankets around the water heater (all the water pipes are already insulated, so nothing to do there). Installed water heater timer. Sprayfoam sealed and insulated all floor/siding punctures including the heat pump hoses and the cable TV runs. Replaced the back door weatherseal that was kinda drafty. Installed a programmable thermostat. In the process of sewing full curtains for all the windows. I also installed low-flow aerating faucet heads on the sinks (wife likes her high-flow shower head, otherwise I would have replaced that, too). Also replaced one of the toilet's fill valves with a water saver one that lets me divert more of the water from filling the bowl to refilling the tank (doesn't really save energy, but does save a bit on the water bill, supposedly) (that was not by choice by the way, the old valve broke, so I had to replace it with something anyway).

On the to do list: re-routing the dryer intake to suck air out of the attic instead of the heated space the dryer sits in. Installing a couple of x-10 outlets for better power management/conservation of TV and other often idle appliances that stay plugged in and use some slight idle power. Paint the front door, ceiling, and under-floor with that insuladd paint (or other similar brand). Although I'm not convinced that it works anywhere near as well as they claim it does... at around $11-15 per gallon, it's worth it if it only added R1 to the effective insulative value (though I realize it's reflective and not a resistive insulator, so it has no real R-value). Also on the to-do list, add a second layer of fiberglass batts under the floor (there's only R19 batts there now, so there's room enough for another R19 batt, but I'll probably just add an R13 so as not to even worry about losing insulating value due to compression). After that, I'm out of cheap ideas. Of course, I realize that all in all, I have probably spent close to about half that $1000... which would have been at least enough to blow in some more attic insulation, but the way my wife budget's the money, well, it's sorta like a government administration. If I don't use the budget, I lose the budget. Once the economy turns around, then she'll be more receptive to a couple of large ticket items here and there to make big differences, but in the meantime, I'm left with what I've got now.

PS - All those little things DO add up in savings by the way. Despite a 35% rate increase this year, our electric bill has gone down by $20 a month over last year's bills... so FAR. Of course, what I really need is a solar system, but my wife's employer is in such desperate financial shape she doesn't know from week to week if they can make payroll the following week, so that's put a freeze on all major spending for us for the time being.

Re: Static Vinyl

icarus wrote: »

It sounds like you are on all the right tracks. My point of $1000 was only to use (made up) comparative numbers. My point is (again) if you spend say $50 on window film (or anything else for that matter) will it yield as much savings as some other energy saving measure. $50 will buy a significant number of square feet of added attic insulation, possibly for bigger benefit.

(Note of caution about over insulating,,,for the few that may not know,,, Insulation works due to trapped air space. Adding insulation in confined space (wall cavity for example) to the point of compressing the insulation is a net looser. For example adding one 6" R-19 batt in a wall cavity on top of another 6" batt compresses both so the net R-value is LESS then the original R-19. Same with attic spaces, you need to have an airspace above the insulation to allow for venting, which is a very inexact science).

Tony

My problem there is that the attic has blown insulation, which get's compacted if you walk on it, so I couldn't add fiberglass batts on top of it without creating a bunch of cold-spots that would be much worse. So until I can afford to have a truck come out and blow in more on top of what's there, which runs about $360-400, I can't really add to the attic insulation. I have thought about adding an attic fan to cool down the attic in the summer though... I'm just a bit non-commital to the idea though. If I did that, I would want it to be one of those self-contained solar ones... and that puts that project into the major expenses catagory.

Re: Static Vinyl

I got to thinking about it and realized that our rates didn't just increase by 35%... because they first raised them by 10% in January, then by 25% in September... that's an effective 37.5% increase because that 10% was compounded. I'm telling ya, it's highway robbery.