Security system for an off-grid cabin?

MaineCabin · October 2008

Hi,

My off-grid cabin was recently broken into. I lost my chainsaw and tools. This cabin is 2 miles down a dead end dirt road and is very remote. This time of year I only visit it during the weekends.

Does any one have thoughts or advice on how I can protect this property? Is there any security systems that would work with a 12V system? I do have a 120V inverter that I usually turn off when I leave the cabin.

Some type of inexpensive camera system with maybe a siren would be nice. I don't have a telephone landline at this location but I do have cellphone coverage.

Thanks in advance.

SolarJohn · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

We need a little more information:
How much power do you have available to run the system? PV? Batteries?
How much are you willing to spend? Initial cash outlay. Monthly cost.
With the cabin being so remote, what good would a siren do?

Off of the top of my head, I would say that you could set up a web-cam, but you would need satelite Internet service. You would pay a monthly fee for that.

I saw a home security system at Sams Club recently. You could check on how much power that requires, including a recording device. It would have to be hidden well, or the crooks would simply take the tape when they leave.

Years ago I set up a security system using a CB radio. Magnetic switches on the doors and windows would trigger a power supply, powering the transmitter. I coupled a small siren device to the microphone, and listened at home for that sound. It was inconvenient, since I had to listen to a bunch of chatter all night long. And, of course, the FCC would have frowned on such a setup.

I hope I've given you some ideas.
John

mike95490 · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

If a tree falls in the woods, and there is nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound ?

You will HAVE to use a cell phone, or something to announce trouble. Maybe look into a WiFi network with a "cantenna" and a friendly neighbor, or your ISP. Now you are looking at power for camera, wireless link, which are not too heavy of draw, but 24/7, it's a fair amount of power.

MaineCabin · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Thanks for the tips.

I have a simple system that consists basically of (4) 12V Trojan batteries and a Xantrex DR1500 watt inverter, with a couple of used Solarex panels.

I was thinking a siren would at least scare someone off. A web cam would be ideal.

SolarJohn wrote: »

We need a little more information:
How much power do you have available to run the system? PV? Batteries?
How much are you willing to spend? Initial cash outlay. Monthly cost.
With the cabin being so remote, what good would a siren do?

Off of the top of my head, I would say that you could set up a web-cam, but you would need satelite Internet service. You would pay a monthly fee for that.

I saw a home security system at Sams Club recently. You could check on how much power that requires, including a recording device. It would have to be hidden well, or the crooks would simply take the tape when they leave.

Years ago I set up a security system using a CB radio. Magnetic switches on the doors and windows would trigger a power supply, powering the transmitter. I coupled a small siren device to the microphone, and listened at home for that sound. It was inconvenient, since I had to listen to a bunch of chatter all night long. And, of course, the FCC would have frowned on such a setup.

I hope I've given you some ideas.
John

shastaron · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

A simple solution would be a game camera. They make some that don't use flash and are IR. If they don't know their picture is being taken then they are less likely to steal the camera.

Get the pictures, file a police report with pictures.

Ron

DagoRanch · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

If you have cellphone coverage, you may very well have wireless internet capability as well. Check with your carrier if you're in an area that can take advantage of EVDO data.

That's broadband internet over cellular. Speed will depend on signal of course, but if you can pull more than a couple of bars on your cellphone, you could be in pretty good shape. Of course you'd have to get a service plan for that and they run about $60 bucks a month. They usually have deals that will get you a data card at no cost with a 2 year agreement. Then you could get a router that uses that EVDO connection as it's backhaul and also provide a wireless gateway for the rest of your property.

Points to ponder!

niel · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

i'm not trying to be a smartbut, but the easiest thing is to not have those things there that would tempt a robber. the game ir camera may be a good solution to nailing the culprits that enter your place, but being remote to you and others with infrequent visits makes this difficult to protect as any such protection/security devices could be damaged or stolen. a pic is nice, but i feel that most police departments wouldn't give a crap that some tools were stolen by a guy that may look like the one in the photo (if it's a good pic) as this isn't going to be an all points bulletin. it might be different if the guy commits murder.
they hit the jackpot at your cabin once and they are just dumb enough to try and come back i'm sure, but getting the goods on them won't be easy as would being able to keep your stuff.

icarus · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

I think Mike's point about the tree falling in the woods is sort of right on.

Rural/remote properties suffer fro their greatest attribute,,,solitude. If you are a long way from anyone, you are a long way from anyone hearing or helping.

Our very remote bush camps are somewhat protected by their remoteness, but guys on snowmobiles can make a haul in a hurry. We protect ourselves as best we can by not being obvious about contents. Shutters, covered windows etc keep the casual thief at bay. (not that we have any of those) Chaining the big tools down in the tool shed in addition to locking the doors. This all slows down or sends the crime of opportunity criminal down the road. We take down the satellite dishes when we are not there so it seems like there may not be a TV or computer on site.

The sad truth is that if someone wants in, and wants your stuff, there is really no stopping them. I am not a fan of any "security" system, I think it only breeds false security. Pros don't generally care. Buy some insurance, figure out what kind of hit you are willing to take on deductable and live with the choice.

Good luck.

Tony

PS Where I live, there have been cases where thieves will snowmobile onto a lake with cottages, cut the chains on a stored boat, flip it over, chain it to the ski-do and fill it with everything and anything they can, cleaning out cottage after cottage. I guess it helps not to leave anything of value if you can, but moving outboards, tools, gensets, chainsaws out and back all the time is a pain.

Mangas · October 2008

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Well, I am probably an expert on this one as I live Off Grid in Southern AZ.

We have a hard wired and centrally monitored security system. Signs are posted. I had an extensive system of motion detectors installed hard wired to two control panels. Each one has a small LED activation sensor which are passive unless disturbed when they glow red. Power usage to run the system is small.

All exterior wiring is hardened and inaccessably hidden as are the microwave phone lines. Low voltage standby cameras are on line too.

We have additional security measures on the ranch as well.

The Border Patrol is aware we have the system too.

Jeff G. · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Hi I have had a 12v security system up for about 10 years. I installed it after we were broken into and robbed. Since then we suffered 3 more breakins but the burgulars took off at the sound of the siren. Last burgulary was about 6 or 7 years ago, the word must have gotten out. I dont think I am quite as remote as you are and have neighbors closer then you. My system (I will get you the maker tomorrow) has worked well. I am having a problem on the charging circuit now but really nothing to do with the alarm system. I have used 1 panel a couple of batteries all doors plus 2 motion sensors.
I know it does not make sense to remove all your gear every weekend, putting in an alarm certainly does not guarentee protection but it may help. I have wanted to put in low voltage cameras conected to a recorder but have not yet started that.
Jeff

stephendv · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Maybe this is a bit wacky, but if you could connect the alarm system to a cell phone that would call you when there's trouble; and you then had said phone connected to a loudspeaker system you could shout obscenities at the culprits while they're in the act.
Hearing a real live human shout at you could be more of a deterrent than a siren.

mike95490 · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

stephendv wrote: »

Maybe this is a bit wacky, but if you could connect the alarm system to a cell phone that would call you when there's trouble; and you then had said phone connected to a loudspeaker system you could shout obscenities at the culprits while they're in the act.
Hearing a real live human shout at you could be more of a deterrent than a siren.

cue recording of shotgun shell being chambered.

dwh · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Reminds me a setup I did for Halloween once...

Took the output from the sound card and ran it into a power amp feeding two 15/horn P.A. boxes. Set the speaks in the front windows of the house.

Fired up DOOM and just let the demo run.

Lots of monster sounds, gun shots, screams and whatnot.

FREAKED the whole neighborhood.

Might work just as well on burglars.

Steve961 · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Here's an option that I am considering. I have had a lot of break-ins over the years, and now that I am building a new/nicer cabin I want some better protection.

The following company makes theft deterrent devices that flood a room/building with pepper spray when triggered by a trip wire or motion detector. The Repulsar IV shown below has 4 separate cylinders that release pepper spray for multiple incursions. The Repulsar IV is not cheap at $429, but they do have an inexpensive single canister trip wire version for only $68.

http://www.stopthecrime.com/default.htm

mike95490 · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Steve961 wrote: »

Here's an option that I am considering. I have had a lot of break-ins over the years, and now that I am building a new/nicer cabin I want some better protection.

The following company makes theft deterrent devices that flood a room/building with pepper spray when triggered by a trip wire or motion detector. The Repulsar IV shown below has 4 separate cylinders that release pepper spray for multiple incursions. The Repulsar IV is not cheap at $429, but they do have an inexpensive single canister trip wire version for only $68.

http://www.stopthecrime.com/default.htm

I think there is some legal problem with "booby trap" devices in your own house, in the states. Something about the fire department and sheriff not liking it, in case they get called out. Otherwise, I'm good for a shotgun and a string at the door knob!

niel · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

mike90045 wrote: »

I think there is some legal problem with "booby trap" devices in your own house, in the states. Something about the fire department and sheriff not liking it, in case they get called out. Otherwise, I'm good for a shotgun and a string at the door knob!

you know even if the pepper spray triggered from a thief, he may just turn around and sue you because of what it can do to a person. he may have to admit to a crime to do this, but in the end could windup owning what you have as payment for damages to him.

sawmill · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

The previous posters are correct about legal issues (liability) to the home owner. You would need legal advice from an attorney in what ever State this proposed security system is proposed. Remember the home and property owner has deeper pockets than the thief and you can guess who will be trying to stick their hand in your pocket.

TnAndy · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Alarms are sometimes great IF you live in a suburban neighborhood...not always even then.

I did some replacement windows for a guy with a monitored alarm...
"Pony Express" brand ( yeah...installed AFTER his burglary ). He and I left for lunch, I got back first and went back to work....didn't realize he had set the alarm, so I naturally tripped it. CLANG CLANG WHIZ BOOM BANG for 5 minutes until it reset itself....not a single neighbor even looked out to see why a strange truck was in his driveway. I told him about setting it off when he came back from lunch, and he said "Yeah....sorry about that.....the alarm company should be here shortly" ..Well, I never did see anyone show, so about 2pm I asked him....you could tell he was a bit hot about it ( hey....he was paying $75/month for "service" )...then I asked him again when I finished up about 5pm....by then, he was downright "testy".....so, trying to make him feel better ( good guy that I am ) I said: "Well, heck, MAYBE their pony died"......ahahhaaaaaa

Point being...alarms are good to scare off kids and amatuers....anybody that REALLY wants your stuff isn't going to be bothered much by them, even in an urban setting. And in a rural setting that you or the cops can't get to in a fairly short time, alarms are about useless. You first, and best lines of defense are:

1. Got a gate ? You said at the end of a 2 mile road. Gate it as far up that road as you own. Thieves are lazy.....they won't walk or carry. Use a simple pipe gate with the lock up in the jamb post so you can't get to it with a pair of bolt cutters ( US Forest Service design )

2. Install some hidden, secure storage.....hidden basement under a small shed, for example. Store valuable tools/etc in there when you leave. PITA to haul them in and out, but cheaper than replacement. Only leave out the minimum that makes the place look lived in, and stuff you could replace for very little from a thrift store.
Thieves aren't generally interested in low value items like your ratty couch with the underwear between the cushions.....

3. Rather than an expensive alarm, install a FAKE security camera.....get the one with the LED light that flashes, so it "looks" like it's on and rolling....then hot glue an old cell phone antennae to it, and get a sign shop to make a very pro looking sign that says " WARNING: ALL ACTIONS IN THIS LOCATION ARE RECORDED AND SENT WIRELESS TO A REMOTE RECORDER" You think 'Redneck-Bob-the-methhead" that stole your chainsaw knows it's fake ?

niel · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

good points andy, but i wonder if saying wirelessly is a good idea as the ignoramous might think all he has to do is pull the antenna.;) saying it is recorded off premises or better yet make up a security company name saying they are getting the video simultaneously is a better idea. ie, video feed recorded at acme security at "list location in some far off place". maybe even say all '16 cameras' are being sent to that location. do you think the fool will want to try to find 16 cameras?:p8)

icarus · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Or "all 16 cameras are monitor 24/7 via the world wide web!

On the other hand just living life, with a reasonable insurance policy might be the best peace of mind.

Tony

Ps I second the notion of secret storage for the easy to steal/high value items. In our neighbourhood are power tools, chain saws and outboards.

I keep stuff scattered in a number of locked (and shuttered) buildings that don't reveal their contents. (Tool shed that looks like a guest cabin for example. Tools are chained together under the bench and we hope for the best. The reality is if someone wants something, they are going to take it no matter what. Better would be a trap door in the floor, covered with a rug. I just can't be that paranoid.

My father was a ham way back in the 40's and 50's . He had antennae hanging all over the bush, and on top of buildings. He made a sign that said something like "NATO Satellite tracking station. Unlawful entry contrary to international law. Violators will be,,,, blah, blah blah" I think he went to his grave convinced that is why he was never broken into! I have to admit the place could have passed for a remote tracking site!

hillbilly · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

We also live out in the hills with very few people nearby. In the end we decided that the idea of trying to lock stuff up was kind of pointless as any thief would feel comfortable making as much noise and taking as much time as they needed to break into or destroy anything that they wanted. Our house has all it's door locks removed (so we can't accidently lock ourselves out), I figured that if a thief scoped our house out and found a locked door then they would just smash a window or two which we would also then have to replace.
At first it made me uneasy, but we've sort of come to feel ok about it all in all. I think we are lucky to be at the end of a private road, so very few casual drive by vehicles. We're also very fortunate to have some "neighbors" at the beginning of our road who are pretty attentive to odd cars coming and going. We all kind of look out for each other however we can. Perhaps the best part of our "security system" is the top of our driveway which we deliberately left rough and unimproved: a dauntingly steep and blind descent with a couple of major ruts (looks like a sketchy 4 wheel only road).
I also think that at some point you just accept that you cannot completely remove the potential threat of lowlife thieves in this world. Tony's comment about just insuring your stuff and crossing your fingers pretty much hit the nail on the head imo, otherwise it can drive you crazy trying to prevent any possible chance of being ripped off. It's a sad reality of our world today...

solargirl · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

hillbilly wrote: »

We also live out in the hills with very few people nearby. In the end we decided that the idea of trying to lock stuff up was kind of pointless as any thief would feel comfortable making as much noise and taking as much time as they needed to break into or destroy anything that they wanted. Our house has all it's door locks removed (so we can't accidently lock ourselves out), I figured that if a thief scoped our house out and found a locked door then they would just smash a window or two which we would also then have to replace.
At first it made me uneasy, but we've sort of come to feel ok about it all in all. I think we are lucky to be at the end of a private road, so very few casual drive by vehicles. We're also very fortunate to have some "neighbors" at the beginning of our road who are pretty attentive to odd cars coming and going. We all kind of look out for each other however we can. Perhaps the best part of our "security system" is the top of our driveway which we deliberately left rough and unimproved: a dauntingly steep and blind descent with a couple of major ruts (looks like a sketchy 4 wheel only road).
I also think that at some point you just accept that you cannot completely remove the potential threat of lowlife thieves in this world. Tony's comment about just insuring your stuff and crossing your fingers pretty much hit the nail on the head imo, otherwise it can drive you crazy trying to prevent any possible chance of being ripped off. It's a sad reality of our world today...

I completely agree... sounds just like my place,

Except my nearest nieghbor is 6 miles down the rd. If I do leave for a extended amout of time I get a friend to come stay while I'm gone.

Oh and I have started locking the doors at night, which I haven't done in the last 20 years, but since I am the only one here now.

It would give me a little more time to get up and get my gun.

niel · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

hillbilly,
now this is just me and it is only my opinion, but i will not make it any easier on any would be thief just because they might break a window worth maybe a couple hundred or more dolars when the home contents are far more valuable and all that i own. yes insure it, but if i were an insurance agent i certainly would hesitate to pay out because you failed to lockup and take some normal precautions due to you being worried about a window's cost.
i guess you would leave your car full of valuables without locking it up or taking minor precautions like placing the items in the trunk because the thief might break that window? imho, if you will make it easy for them then it is more apt to happen. so what if the window is intact when you made it easier for them to take it all? thieves never pass up easy targets. if they break my window there's a chance they will hurt themselves on the glass and that is a partial deterrent and one i'm glad to take.

peakbagger · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

I have been looking for a DC powered DVR with a couple of wireless IR cameras hooked up to a motion switch in a waterproof box. Basically a game camera with plenty of storage and use a few small spare PV panels to power the components.

Generally, about the only hope is to get enough info on the scum that broke in, that they can get caught eventually. Usually in my area, its comes down to one or two individuals on snowmachines who end up with a building full of stolen stuff (as they dont know how to sell it) and eventually after enough breakins, the regional law enforcement go after them but only after a whole lot of break ins.

hillbilly · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

niel wrote: »

hillbilly,
now this is just me and it is only my opinion, but i will not make it any easier on any would be thief just because they might break a window worth maybe a couple hundred or more dolars when the home contents are far more valuable and all that i own. yes insure it, but if i were an insurance agent i certainly would hesitate to pay out because you failed to lockup and take some normal precautions due to you being worried about a window's cost.
i guess you would leave your car full of valuables without locking it up or taking minor precautions like placing the items in the trunk because the thief might break that window? imho, if you will make it easy for them then it is more apt to happen. so what if the window is intact when you made it easier for them to take it all? thieves never pass up easy targets. if they break my window there's a chance they will hurt themselves on the glass and that is a partial deterrent and one i'm glad to take.

I totally agree about thieves picking easy targets, and not making life any easier for them. As for the locks on the doors, it's just that I don't see that making it one ounce more difficult for a thief to get our stuff (in our particular location). If we lived close enough for anyone to hear the glass break, or if we had bullet proof glass windows or something maybe...? As it is, it would just not really slow any thief down more than about two seconds to break a window, or just open the door and leave me one less thing to have to replace. Cars, at our house are usually parked with the keys in the ignition (makes them easy to find)... but away from home or in town we typically lock them (the dogs are also a pretty decent theft deterrent). I NEVER leave anything inside a car if I can help it, especially in a city.
I have lived in several rough neighborhoods when I was a younger feller, and one place had car break ins, and car jackings at least a couple times a week for a spell. I had an old piece of junk car, and decided to leave it parked empty with the windows rolled all the way down and the doors unlocked to save myself the expense of another broken window. That worked like a charm, until some punk was apparently upset that I didn't leave them any booty ever: so they kicked in the door panels in and spray painted all over my poor little car... one of the big reasons I moved out of the city.
It's sad, but I suppose that thieves have been a fact of life in one form or another since the beginnings of our existence... I try my best to not let them also steal my own piece of mind, and I cross my fingers for the best.
HB

Mangas · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Here in the SE Arizona outback, we depend and support our hardworking Border Patrol as well as becoming experts in installing extensive security measures.

You wouldn't believe what we have do to secure our homes and ranches. Makes town look like Fort Knox.

Out of control here.

solargirl · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Mangas wrote: »

Here in the SE Arizona outback, we depend and support our hardworking Border Patrol as well as becoming experts in installing extensive security measures.

You wouldn't believe what we have do to secure our homes and ranches. Makes town look like Fort Knox.

Out of control here.

The theives would have plenty of time here, and no one around to hear a window break. I wish I could secure the ranch somewhat but I don't even know where to start.

If someone came up here they would have a field day !!

Mangas · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Even with our security measures, we never leave the ranch for more than a few hours.

Then, when they cut our fences it's days finding and gathering back the livestock, etc.
Not pretty.

Dave Angelini · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Try the old technique of a sign for the fire people stating you have "defensible space" and below a sign that says "no trespassing" with very large caliber holes in it! Have weekly target practice on different days. The "dead end" sign works also!

SolarLurker · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

A few companies make windows and film that will mitigate a smash and grab.

Security camera can go a long way to prevent theft, crooks don't really like be video taped.

If your worried about getting lock out of the house you can get new locks with key pads.

BB. · January 2010

Re: Security system for an off-grid cabin?

Or get one of the small combination lock type key vaults that are available online or from the local home improvement store.

3M and others offer security window films.

-Bill

Security system for an off-grid cabin?

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