Schneider XW and Fortress Evault closed loop

Mtnsun · January 2024

Hello everyone
I am checking in to see if anyone is running a Schneider XW Pro with XW MPPT 100 amp CC in closed loop with a fortress Evault max? I have been told by fortress tech support there is a problem with the battery communicating with the Xw charge controller in closed loop communication, he said when the battery is full it will turn off the charge controller.
He said I should try updating the firmware on the battery to the newest firmware.
So I am waiting for a configuration tool.
This seems like a minor configuration situation between the 2 companies evolving firmware, and could only apply to the newest Schneider firmware/ old Fortress firmware.
I have a XW PRO and Evault system operating great in open loop right now but I am hoping to run closed loop soon.
Anyone else have any experience with this?

Dave Angelini · January 2024

I tried to help an installer (remote view on my end) do similar with the Fortress E flex. We never were able to "close the loop" Never had any indication that the E flex was receiving the canbus control from (2) different Schneider Gateways or that E flex was outputting correct data.

I know the Schneider part by heart and even though Fortress Engineering said they have a system working, I believe it was on their end. They sent a tech out and it got to the point where my client had to cut his losses.

The system is working fine now closed loop with another battery make.

Just a bad outcome. We had firmware Insight at v1.18 and XWP at v2.0400. The canbus wiring was correct. I think the Fortress tech reloaded BMS FW but I was remote viewing this.

Schneider provides the battery companies with canbus and modbus mapping for the Conext home or facility. They are the Gateway BTW into a BMS being closed loop with Schneider products. This may not help much other than knowing others are out there. Sorry for you!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/g4/og5q4mv7kcub.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/3d/t4flvhivgxix.jpg

Mtnsun · January 2024

Dave, thanks for your input.
I also have insight Facility at v1.18 and XWP 2.04.00 build 29
Have you witnessed any closed loop communication between schneider and Fortress actually work?
It was definitely a huge surprise to me when I was told the closed loop communication might not ever work from the Fortress tech because its not a all in one inverter. I watched a Fortress power and Schneider webinar recording on YouTube with both companies detailing how this combination works, there is also lots of information floating around on websites and sales brochures that this combination will work.

Dave Angelini · January 2024

That is the problem with YouTube and the internet. All kinds of claims and not much context. For instance what firmware on both companies at that time? Where was it tested? Is it still running?

I often tell my Offgrid folks not to change firmware unless they have a specific reason. Why chance a working power system?

I can't say any more than we never saw any sign that a basic parameter like Soc was being communicated to Schneider Local. Good Luck !

Mtnsun · January 2024

I agree watching YouTube videos is a great way to get bad information, the 2 companies appeared to be working together in their webinars.
This is a newly Commissioned system so the firmware was updated when installed, as recommended in the Schneider Commissioning guide.
It is a off grid system if there is better off grid firmware that would be helpful information.
I will just hope the fortress firmware update works for now.
Thanks for the input.

Dave Angelini · January 2024

I have not heard from NAZ on this combination and so I would recommend their input. They sell both.
NAZ, the store here is an excellent place to buy as they often have there own webinars and some hands on learning.

I would also call support at Schneider and get a case number, especially if this drags on. Tell them what I have been for 10 years that there should be Offgrid only firmware for XWP. There is a very high probability that all of the unused grid coding is causing an issue. Good Luck !

Mtnsun · January 2024

I have definitely purchased items from NAZ (NAWS) over the years, my 2 new Fortress evault max were recently purchased from NAZ by my installer. He has been working on this closed loop situation with Fortress too, but I felt it was best for me to get some of my own information.
I am a new member here but I have been reading this forum for years, there is good Information on here.
Recently in my email exchanges with Fortress they told me to disable SOC control.
I have been trying understand the relationship between the XW equipment and the fortress equipment in closed loop, how would disabling SOC control effect the operation of a closed loop system?

Dave Angelini · January 2024

Soc trigger on xwp requires the battery BMS communicate the data. Yours and the one I worked on did not! So, yes they are right. you need to trigger on voltage or open loop charge. Like you are now until there is a fix.

Glad you bought this from NAZ. Installer should communicate with NAZ on other sales with possibly this problem? Power in numbers often gets attention.

Hopefully fortress will fix this. I know it is not on Schneider's end as XWP works fine with 4 other LFP battery makes. On one I have over 50 great closed loop power systems since 2019.

Mtnsun · January 2024

Dave
How was it determined the battery and inverter were not communicating?
Was it as simple as the bms Information not showing up on insight?
I just upgraded from 10 year old L16'S and I am still trying to get a grasp on closed loop communication

Mtnsun · February 2024

Update
The closed loop communication is now working between the XW Pro
And Fortress Evault Max

Dave Angelini · February 2024

Was the firmware from fortress the issue? How about screenshot for others to see?

Mtnsun · February 2024

The Fortress firmware was not updated. The new firmware might be updated soon. Following the instructions provided by Fortress Power it successfully worked.

The best I can do is a screenshot from Insight mobile because I am not home right now. The batteries are at 100% this evening and are not accepting any charge

Mtnsun · February 2024

Dave Angelini · February 2024

Nice and happy for you!

Fortress tried with E flex and could not even get Soc communicated to Schneider.

Keep planting those trees....😉

Mtnsun · February 2024

Here is a screenshot From Insight local of the fortress bms

CasinovaRock23 · January 23

Dave Angelini said:

I tried to help an installer (remote view on my end) do similar with the Fortress E flex. We never were able to "close the loop" Never had any indication that the E flex was receiving the canbus control from (2) different Schneider Gateways or that E flex was outputting correct data.

I know the Schneider part by heart and even though Fortress Engineering said they have a system working, I believe it was on their end. They sent a tech out and it got to the point where my client had to cut his losses.

The system is working fine now closed loop with another battery make.

Just a bad outcome. We had firmware Insight at v1.18 and XWP at v2.0400. The canbus wiring was correct. I think the Fortress tech reloaded BMS FW but I was remote viewing this.

Schneider provides the battery companies with canbus and modbus mapping for the Conext home or facility. They are the Gateway BTW into a BMS being closed loop with Schneider products. This may not help much other than knowing others are out there. Sorry for you!

Dave, I just purchased 2 XW Pro 6848's + InsightHome from NAZ to upgrade my system. I am now shopping for a compatible battery bank and wanted to know what the other "battery make" was that you had luck with in the story you described above.

Dave Angelini · January 24

Become a client and you will get alot more than what I was doing here a year ago in my business. Email below.

Mtnsun · January 26

It's a good time to be buying batteries, Fortress evaults are down 25% at Naz from 1 year ago.
My fortress evault are still working good, no problems so far,
There are a handful of batteries that work closed loop with Xw Pro, If i was purchasing today It would be a tough decision, buy the cheaper batteries and get more capacity or buy the more expensive batteries, it's a tough call.

Dave Angelini · January 27

Did Fortress add State of health? Maybe ask them for it. It is a great tool to have in the box down the road and it is there for Insight local and cloud.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/ei/zz9dgmtpq2ju.jpg

Mtnsun · January 27

Yes state of health supported and shown on Insight, still showing 100% after 1 year.
Are you seeing degradation in some of your older installs?

Dave Angelini · January 29

Did not see SoH on your post.
Oldest of good batts is 2017 and down to 95% health
It depends on at least 3 things on a quality LFP that are commissioned properly, the depth of discharge, the amount of cycles per day (some use gens for multiple daily cycles. The 3rd is how well the BMS balances and corrects.

I have seen quite a few bad LFP batts from others that I get to take a second look on. The buyer definitely needs to apply due diligence for long life !!!

Mtnsun · January 30

If you look at my Bms screenshot on insight local a few posts above, you can find the Soh on the right side about half way down.
That's impressive the batteries are still showing 95% Soh after that many years.

Dave Angelini · January 30

yes I see it now... I think the batteries look that good because Schneider was really motivated then to sell the XW system with the LG LFP. In the end they pulled the plug. In 2017, those days they did not know how to effectively limit charge and discharge currents. Insight device was not ready for the way things are now.

The LG had a great BMS that was shared with Schneider. The other LG we tested offgrid was destroyed by XWP output surge to 10kw. I took it to the dump and it is out in the desert at Waste Management hazardous material storage. What a pit out there near Kettleman city, central Cali. It looks like a prison.

The dump there does illustrate how dangerous lithium can be. Also shows how there are very few ways to recycle lithium batts. I get email on where to recycle, and when followed up, it ends up they are sending it to the dump.

Up north of me in northen Nevada they have the summer burning man "party" That area has alot of pollution from blowing up lithium batteries for "fun" at night. Would not drink from a well there.

Mtnsun · January 31

It is going to be interesting to see what happens to all these batteries in 5-20 years.
As you mentioned the weak link seems to be the electronics, if the BMS fails the battery stops working. Hopefully the company you bought the batteries from is still in business if this happens.

Schneider XW and Fortress Evault closed loop

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