Big inverter fridges.

Options
softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
They are both quiet and appear to be more energy efficient. But 28 c.f. may be too much for a single lad to deliver and install. Bought my Samsung because I got an ~ $2400 fridge for $500. Thing is a BEAST. 

But the yellow energy star tag says there are similar sized units (26-28cf) that are significantly more energy efficient. Euro models? 

Mine is rated 755 kWh for 28 c.f. Good but probably not fantastic.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Samsung inverter refrig's for U.S. 120vac market have terrible power factor.  My 28 cu-ft has PF of 0.5 to 0.60.   It is actually worse as the poor power factor is due to simple rectifier-capacitor filter for AC to DC conversion in power supply which has short, high peak current crest factor.  It's true avg power consumption is about twice my older conventional GE 25 cu-ft refrig.  It consumes about 2.5 kWH per day.

    They have an 'energy saver' button.  It turns off the heater in the front mini-door that is normally heated to keep outside of door from sweating with condensation due to limited insulation in mini-door. Marketing spin to turn lemons into lemon aid.

    Ice maker freezes up and jams all the time due to overflow during tray refill.

    Sorry I bought it. 
  • NANOcontrol
    NANOcontrol Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭✭
    Options
    Do you really care what the power factor is? Off grid that isn't much of a reason.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Thanks! Somehow lost the directions. Can't seem to change any settings. Where is the energy saver button?

    My unit is always making a fan like noise. Always. 




    RCinFLA said:
    Samsung inverter refrig's for U.S. 120vac market have terrible power factor.  My 28 cu-ft has PF of 0.5 to 0.60.   It is actually worse as the poor power factor is due to simple rectifier-capacitor filter for AC to DC conversion in power supply which has short, high peak current crest factor.  It's true avg power consumption is about twice my older conventional GE 25 cu-ft refrig.  It consumes about 2.5 kWH per day.

    They have an 'energy saver' button.  It turns off the heater in the front mini-door that is normally heated to keep outside of door from sweating with condensation due to limited insulation in mini-door. Marketing spin to turn lemons into lemon aid.

    Ice maker freezes up and jams all the time due to overflow during tray refill.

    Sorry I bought it. 

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Yes. It is the wear and tear on the batteries that makes off grid energy so expensive. Much more interested in energy consumption when using solar. 

    This time of year I still get good energy production from ~ 8:30am to ~ 4:30pm. 



    NANOcontrol said:
    Do you really care what the power factor is? Off grid that isn't much of a reason.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2023 #6
    Options

    RCinFLA said:
    Samsung inverter refrig's for U.S. 120vac market have terrible power factor.  My 28 cu-ft has PF of 0.5 to 0.60.   It is actually worse as the poor power factor is due to simple rectifier-capacitor filter for AC to DC conversion in power supply which has short, high peak current crest factor.  It's true avg power consumption is about twice my older conventional GE 25 cu-ft refrig.  It consumes about 2.5 kWH per day.

    They have an 'energy saver' button.  It turns off the heater in the front mini-door that is normally heated to keep outside of door from sweating with condensation due to limited insulation in mini-door. Marketing spin to turn lemons into lemon aid.

    Ice maker freezes up and jams all the time due to overflow during tray refill.

    Sorry I bought it. 
    Ouch! I appreciate the information, but that's downright ugly. I never would have thought about the PF on a refrigerator, but now I know.

    Thanks!

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Read a review stating these units are unusually large on the outside but not on the inside. Know I had to remove the strap and rock it through a 36" door entrance. Plenty of abrasion. 

    Contacted customer service about changing some settings. They asked for model # and serial # then disappeared - so far. I can't change any settings on my four door/french doors unit. The reviews are not good and youtube seems to have dropped the vids as well. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Samsung had issues with the refrigerant also. Not sure about now.

    FWIW the big LG's linear compressors have been flawless for many pf my clients and myself.

    If you are near a Costco..


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    Samsung customer service via text option could not be worse.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,457 admin
    Options
    Regarding "LG(?) inverter refrigerators"... One service person out of Canada suggested that the LG inverter/fridges seem to last around 7 years +/- or something like 1/2 the life of a typical fridge.

    Take that with a grain of salt.

    That the one fridge has a 0.50 Power Factor--That is really sad--And in many countries would not be "acceptable" to national energy standards that require better than 0.8 or 0.9 (as I recall) PF standards.

    Asking why PF matters... For the "average" grid customer--It really does not. The typical utility meter only "charges" for kWH (kilo Watt*Hours of energy used). So a (made up numbers) 300 VA (volt*amp) load * 0.5 PF = 150 Watt load (Watts=VA*PF).

    AC power "math" is actually quite complex. And what happens in "real life" with power PF loads is complex too...

    The sort of short answer... There are two major classes of PF issues. There are Linear PF issues and Non-Linear PF issues.

    The Linear PF issues are (for example) standard induction motors that simply draw the current out of phase with respect to the voltage. Typically motors "look like inductors" where the voltage rises, then the current a few milliseconds later starts to rise). This type of PF issue can be corrected by the owner/customer/utility by installing capacitors (at the motor, out on the grid) to "correct poor PF").

    To answer why this matters--Is that a 0.5 PF draws 2x more current than a "perfect" 1.0 PF load. So the wiring, transformer, generator, etc. has to be 2x larger to handle that "extra" current that does nothing useful. Also, remember that Power=I^2*R... So that 2x more current means 4x more losses due to heating of wires/transformers/etc. So for larger loads (office buildings, oil refinerys, etc.) are more efficient with "good PF" loads.

    And for large/complex systems--There was the example of a credit car processing center (days of paper card receipts--As I recall). Had a bunch Personal Computers--Floors of them--and the building wiring was overheating even though the wring should have been large enough to support the rate power (Watts) of the computer loads. Also, in the case of the PCs with "non-linear" loads (next), this cause the 3 phase power to run wonkie and cause high neutral/currents) and cause more overheated wiring issues.

    The non-linear poor PF of (typically computers/electronic system) power supplies is that the "front end" of those supplies use a a diode connected to a capacitor to convert 120/240 VAC to 340 VDC for the DC to DC conversion to low voltage for the electronics. This causes a "current spike" near the peak/crest of the AC voltage wave form, and zero current draw during the 80% of the lower voltages of the AC wave form.

    This will cause a "power PF" just like the linear PF--However, this spike of current cannot be "fixed" by adding AC capacitors to the AC line (non-linear current flow).

    Also these spikes have lots of "harmonics" or higher frequencies in them. The AC system, transformers, etc. are designed for 60 Hz (or 50 Hz) current... When the loads start injecting 120/180/240 Hz / etc.) current into those transformers, this causes circulating currents inside the transformers (and generators) which uses "current/Ampere capacity) and generates lots of waste heat (over heating).

    Decades ago, the solution for electronic power supplies was to use Power Factor Corrected power supplies... The electronics now look like a "linear" load and do not "stress" the AC utility/inverters/generators. This is a well known issue and solution--For a "inverter-compressor" refrigerator mfg. to have poor PF designs is pretty much unforgivable.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    I am wondering why fridges cost multiplies more than they used to - while seeming to offer much shorter lives. 10 years? They used to go a LOT longer than that. A friends parents had one going on 30 years I think.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Options
    The Charger on XW is PF corrected Bill, it still amazes me to see a 28 Cu ft LG linear compressor start/run on a 1KW Honda genset. 

    If you change industry refrigerants every 7 years, it will drive cost up and reliability down. I see very little effort put into building a decent place in the kitchen to cool these big boxes. We/I do not do this offgrid!  An offgrid kitchen can be made right for loads that run 24/7.  One of the reasons I have great experience with LG offgrid is we do these things to make them last. It is a small part of what I do offgrid BTW.

    The manufacturers state they need zero clearance to walls and even ceilings, and people wonder why they do not last?  The manufacturer also has stock that investors expect good returns on. The Dire Straights song " we got to move these refrigerators"  Cheers!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭✭
    Options
    What really matters is the kWh consumed I would think. 758/year on a 28 cu. ft. model is not impressive but not too terribly different than an LG consuming ~675/year. I got mine for 75% 0ff. I can buy a few batteries with the savings. And four doors is kind of nice. Only luxury item I have. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries