Keeping a freezer outdoors in the shade?

softdown · July 2023

Very long story but I am trying this for a bit. Next to the garage and sitting on 2 x 4s.

Just moved everything out of Denver home and ran out of interior space.

What is likely to happen?

This is a very dry climate.

I can make room indoors if I must. Yesterday was an 18 hour day. Yet I had to keep the food from Denver home frozen.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

Never tried it, let us know! It's a bit too hot for that around here - headed for 104F today.

softdown · July 2023

Marc Kurth said:

Never tried it, let us know! It's a bit too hot for that around here - headed for 104F today.

Yea, morning voltage reading took a pretty big hit. Going to move it indoors today. Yesterday was the hottest day of the year at ~ 93F.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

Is this on your forklift battery or the AGMs in your signature line?

softdown · July 2023

Forklift battery died suddenly a couple years ago. Seemed a victim of sabotage really. Suddenly it would not hold a charge for two days in spite of being disconnected from everything.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

So your Fullriver 8Ds are still alive?

softdown · July 2023

Marc Kurth said:

So your Fullriver 8Ds are still alive?

Very much so. Really good batteries. With 8 fridges and freezers my 6am voltage has dropped in the low 49s, even clipping into the high 48s on occasion. i have other batteries and another solar system that help out.

Today I fired up a 28 c.f. Samsung inverter fridge as well. That will allow my to free up two fridges. One is noisy and in the bedroom. The other is where I'd like to put other stuff.

Been grocery store dumpster diving for "tons" of food. But most good food needs to be kept cool. Plus I over reacted to Covid and bought a LOT of frozen chicken and pot pies. A lot.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

I remember the deal on the massive stockpile of pot pies

That is good news on the batteries because they were built in 2014 about two years before you got them if I recall correctly, so that would be seven years of cycling duty - nine years old total.

softdown · July 2023

They seen very light duty until my reaction to covid. I bought a LOT of frozen food at a great price. Though battery wear and tear is what it is.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

Fortunately, those batteries will "warn you" by gradually losing storage capacity instead of suddenly going belly-up. When you bought them, I was concerned about the two years already on the clock but you have proven that it was a good move. I have sold a lot of Fullriver and Concorde AGM off-grid battery banks that are 10+ years old and still going strong. The trick is good conservative design and installation.

I know that you have been on board with laying in supplies for a long time, but Covid presented several good lessons for people who were not previously paying attention. We have a nation full of people who will drop into full panic mode when things go sideways. You don't need a crystal ball to see dark clouds on the horizon.

littleharbor2 · July 2023

Marc Kurth said:

.
Covid presented several good lessons for people who paid attention.

Huh?? :

Marc Kurth · July 2023

I am often amazed at the blank faces I see when trying to discuss what is going on around them. Blissful ignorance turns them into useful idiots.

softdown · July 2023

I see dark, ominous storm clouds literally everywhere. Everywhere. 360 degree attack.

Marc Kurth said:

Fortunately, those batteries will "warn you" by gradually losing storage capacity instead of suddenly going belly-up. When you bought them, I was concerned about the two years already on the clock but you have proven that it was a good move. I have sold a lot of Fullriver and Concorde AGM off-grid battery banks that are 10+ years old and still going strong. The trick is good conservative design and installation.
I know that you have been on board with laying in supplies for a long time, but Covid presented several good lessons for people who were not previously paying attention. We have a nation full of people who will drop into full panic mode when things go sideways. You don't need a crystal ball to see dark clouds on the horizon.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

But don't worry, the Government will fix any problems and take good care of us. There is no need for any level of self-sufficiency.

littleharbor2 · July 2023

Marc Kurth said:. Blissful ignorance turns them into useful idiots.

That's classic. Can I use that phrase?

I am amazed to know how many of the recent generations can not even drive a freakin' stick shift!

softdown · July 2023

littleharbor2 said:

Marc Kurth said:. Blissful ignorance turns them into useful idiots.

That's classic. Can I use that phrase?

I am amazed to know how many of the recent generations can not even drive a freakin' stick shift!

They were raised to be this way. Part of the 360 degree attack.

Marc Kurth · July 2023

softdown said:

littleharbor2 said:

Marc Kurth said:. Blissful ignorance turns them into useful idiots.

That's classic. Can I use that phrase?

I am amazed to know how many of the recent generations can not even drive a freakin' stick shift!

They were raised to be this way. Part of the 360 degree attack.

Yes, that is how most were raised. Too many cannot diagnose/fix anything mechanical, or electrical. They can't hunt or fish for food, or even grow it. Most importantly, they lack critical thinking skills. Ask any of my kids or grandkids to describe a Democracy and they will tell you: "That's when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu."

BB. · July 2023

I will give the younger folks a general pass on things like driving a stick shift and such (I taught both my kids on a stick)...

A hundred twenty + years ago, taking care of horses, riding/hitching horses, care and feeding, growing and preserving your own food, building your own home (my father did most of the work to build our 2 bedroom addition, neighbor built both his first and second homes, etc...

Against things that have changed... That neighbor straigtened used nails, saved 4x4 from old homes, etc. Another neighbor up the road used old/salvaged 2x4s for the whole home (dead straight, dry, not a knot anywhere) and the local building department told him to take down the whole home because non-stamped lumber (industry standards for tested/inspected lumber).

Not to say that "the old ways were always best"... That guy that built his two homes... He used salvaged main breaker panels (they were pulled from the scrap pile as the panels were deemed unsafe by UL/NRTL/Building inspectors (of a new, at the time, housing development). Years later, when selling the home, the owner had to replace the breaker panel. He also used flattened 1lb coffee cans as J-Box covers--Which the owner also needed inspect/fix.

I helped my father rebuild several car engines over the years (basically old cars in the 1960's) with whatever was needed (i.e., different exhaust, cams, etc.)... Today, such states as California, every two years we have smog inspections/tests. If you have the wrong engine (pulled an older engine to put into a newer car--Building a custom car of some time (hot rod, 4wd, etc.) can become a legal nightmare. A friend had to install the "correct" exhaust manifold for his van because of a smog inspection (appeared to be factory original--Was never clear if the State database was wrong, or built for another state with lesser smog requirements).

And with modern cars and CAN Bus systems--need a computer (with correct software for the year/model of car) to read all of the multiple computer system states (errors, error history, etc.). Not to go into the details of how read/understand all of the test results... Or how complexity has made for other issues (one car brand--Strip the sheet metal from around the headlight blinker so the car thief can get to the CAN Bus--Then use a "CAN Bus" injector to overload the bus with commands that eventually crash the engine computer and allow the thief to override the car security system to start the car and drive away.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/18/vehicle-headlight-can-bus-injection-theft-method-update/

Have a friend that used to hire/run a machine/assembly/maintenance team for his company. His goto question was what is your hobby. He was looking for folks that worked and upgraded their own cars/motorcycles,, etc... Was a great way to find good employees.

It was said, back in the day (of Thomas Jefferson) that a well educated person could "know" all of basic human knowledge (add--At least in their part of the world):

https://www.thoughtco.com/things-to-know-about-thomas-jefferson-104986

Thomas Jefferson is often called the "Last Renaissance Man." He was certainly one of the most accomplished presidents in American History: a president, politician, inventor, archaeologist, naturalist, author, educator, lawyer, architect, violinist, and philosopher. He spoke six languages, conducted archaeological investigations on Indigenous mounds on his property, founded the University of Virginia, and assembled a library which eventually served as the foundation for the Library of Congress. And over the length of his life he enslaved over 600 people of African and African American descent.

Not to say that all of his views/knowledge of how the world works would be acceptable today....

We are products of our time (and place). And this is the age of specialization.

-Bill

Marc Kurth · July 2023

BB. said:

I will give the younger folks a general pass on things like driving a stick shift and such (I taught both my kids on a stick)...

A hundred twenty + years ago, taking care of horses, riding/hitching horses, care and feeding, growing and preserving your own food, building your own home (my father did most of the work to build our 2 bedroom addition, neighbor built both his first and second homes, etc...

Against things that have changed... That neighbor straigtened used nails, saved 4x4 from old homes, etc. Another neighbor up the road used old/salvaged 2x4s for the whole home (dead straight, dry, not a knot anywhere) and the local building department told him to take down the whole home because non-stamped lumber (industry standards for tested/inspected lumber).

Not to say that "the old ways were always best"... That guy that built his two homes... He used salvaged main breaker panels (they were pulled from the scrap pile as the panels were deemed unsafe by UL/NRTL/Building inspectors (of a new, at the time, housing development). Years later, when selling the home, the owner had to replace the breaker panel. He also used flattened 1lb coffee cans as J-Box covers--Which the owner also needed inspect/fix.

I helped my father rebuild several car engines over the years (basically old cars in the 1960's) with whatever was needed (i.e., different exhaust, cams, etc.)... Today, such states as California, every two years we have smog inspections/tests. If you have the wrong engine (pulled an older engine to put into a newer car--Building a custom car of some time (hot rod, 4wd, etc.) can become a legal nightmare. A friend had to install the "correct" exhaust manifold for his van because of a smog inspection (appeared to be factory original--Was never clear if the State database was wrong, or built for another state with lesser smog requirements).

And with modern cars and CAN Bus systems--need a computer (with correct software for the year/model of car) to read all of the multiple computer system states (errors, error history, etc.). Not to go into the details of how read/understand all of the test results... Or how complexity has made for other issues (one car brand--Strip the sheet metal from around the headlight blinker so the car thief can get to the CAN Bus--Then use a "CAN Bus" injector to overload the bus with commands that eventually crash the engine computer and allow the thief to override the car security system to start the car and drive away.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/18/vehicle-headlight-can-bus-injection-theft-method-update/

Have a friend that used to hire/run a machine/assembly/maintenance team for his company. His goto question was what is your hobby. He was looking for folks that worked and upgraded their own cars/motorcycles,, etc... Was a great way to find good employees.

It was said, back in the day (of Thomas Jefferson) that a well educated person could "know" all of basic human knowledge (add--At least in their part of the world):

https://www.thoughtco.com/things-to-know-about-thomas-jefferson-104986
Thomas Jefferson is often called the "Last Renaissance Man." He was certainly one of the most accomplished presidents in American History: a president, politician, inventor, archaeologist, naturalist, author, educator, lawyer, architect, violinist, and philosopher. He spoke six languages, conducted archaeological investigations on Indigenous mounds on his property, founded the University of Virginia, and assembled a library which eventually served as the foundation for the Library of Congress. And over the length of his life he enslaved over 600 people of African and African American descent.
Not to say that all of his views/knowledge of how the world works would be acceptable today....

We are products of our time (and place). And this is the age of specialization.

-Bill

We are indeed products of our time, but calling it the age specialization is being too kind. But I do understand your point clearly.

BB. · July 2023

A (recent) tragedy of a small group of 3 (family) that was going to give up on the modern world and go off the grid. In the end it appears to be a tent, some store food, and trying to build a lean-to. Brutal winter, very little weather protection, and possible malnutrition/starvation/freezing to death:

https://www.insider.com/family-died-colorado-campsite-wanted-to-live-off-the-grid-2023-7

The Vance sisters and the teenage boy may have starved or died as a result of freezing temperatures, the coroner said.

"It was a significantly harsh winter for us this year, and it always is here," Barnes told The Colorado Sun, adding, "But we did have more snow than we have had in the past couple of winters."

Barnes told the AP that he wondered whether "winter came on quickly and suddenly they were just in survival mode in the tent."

"They had a lot of literature with them about outdoor survival and foraging and stuff like that. But it looked like they supplied at a grocery store," Barnes said, according to the AP.

The coroner said it appeared that the family had started to build what he described as a "lean-to" type of shelter, but that it was not completed by the time winter rolled around.

We are so disconnected from what life was like 150+ years ago... And how easy we can die from poor planning/decisions/chucking the "modern life".

-Bill

JRHill · July 2023

BB. said:

A (recent) tragedy of a small group of 3 (family) that was going to give up on the modern world and go off the grid. In the end it appears to be a tent, some store food, and trying to build a lean-to. Brutal winter, very little weather protection, and possible malnutrition/starvation/freezing to death:

https://www.insider.com/family-died-colorado-campsite-wanted-to-live-off-the-grid-2023-7
The Vance sisters and the teenage boy may have starved or died as a result of freezing temperatures, the coroner said.
"It was a significantly harsh winter for us this year, and it always is here," Barnes told The Colorado Sun, adding, "But we did have more snow than we have had in the past couple of winters."
Barnes told the AP that he wondered whether "winter came on quickly and suddenly they were just in survival mode in the tent."
"They had a lot of literature with them about outdoor survival and foraging and stuff like that. But it looked like they supplied at a grocery store," Barnes said, according to the AP.
The coroner said it appeared that the family had started to build what he described as a "lean-to" type of shelter, but that it was not completed by the time winter rolled around.
We are so disconnected from what life was like 150+ years ago... And how easy we can die from poor planning/decisions/chucking the "modern life".

-Bill

I saw that article. It would be an interesting study for what the three 'thought' they knew about what they were taking on. Gosh I would've not wanted to be the person that found the first body or the folks that followed up on the site. It reminded me of the 'wagon train' that got stranded in the winter and ended up in cannibalism.

We have been off grid for 13 years in a remote and difficult to access area with a steep and quite rough logging trail as the only way in/out. We have been snowed in for as long as 6 weeks. Of course there are zero services, utilities, nothing, nada. But the DW and I have prepared based upon experience over our lifetime. We have plenty of books on survival, etc but I can recall when we have read any of them.

All I can say is I hope this story is received by people that think they can succeed without small, more safe steps in that direction before fully jumping into the project.

softdown · August 2023

I think this thread drifted a bit. Into a near and dear subject of mine. I feel the western world is under attack from almost 360 degrees. Some intentional, some misguided, some a simple byproduct of the intentional and the misguided. If true life could morph into a virtual living hell for many.

I am considering a move into a traditional and more conservative country that is able to resist what seems to be shaping up - one government totalitarianism by electronic surveillance of all movement, thought, and speech. Of course I will wait for the next election. I see three main candidates with the qualifications to stall the current momentum and buy us more time.

Moving could be fruitless if one shred of modern technology is kept around. Living without modern "conveniences" could be a challenging adjustment. Especially art my age. But preferable to eating bugs I think.

Keeping a freezer outdoors in the shade?

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