May be switching from lithium and copper to sodium and aluminum

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
in New Battery Technologies #1
Just watched a good youtube vid. China's largest lithium battery manufacturer is preparing for a big change in battery chemistry. The manufacturing process stays the same though.
Weight will go down about 8% due to using aluminum instead of copper.
Cost will go down about 8% because sodium and aluminum are cheaper than copper and cobalt and lithium.
Energy density? They claim it is going up. We'll see about that.
Safer

When? "Sometime in 2023. We'll see about that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts2vRBhj658
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Big advantage is they are much more cold tolerant, good down to-20 Celsius, or about -4 Fahrenheit. 
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Photowhit said:
    Big advantage is they are much more cold tolerant, good down to-20 Celsius, or about -4 Fahrenheit. 
    That is huge. I keep thinking that changing from lithium and copper to sodium and aluminum should represent more than an ~8% reduction in cost. Perhaps they don't want to crash the present market? 

    We have 1000 times more sodium than lithium. Something like that also applies to aluminum vs. copper. They didn't say too much about the cobalt used in the higher performance batteries. Cobalt mining is also an absolute ecological disaster. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • SteveInMN
    SteveInMN Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭
    #4
    Beginning...to...hold...breath....NOW!!!..............................................

    Seriously, big claims from randos and others every couple weeks. Toyota's 'had' an SS since 2014 that still no one has seen. I've decided to curb my enthusiasm till the alleged new tech is on Amazon.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    SteveInMN said:
    Beginning...to...hold...breath....NOW!!!..............................................

    Seriously, big claims from randos and others every couple weeks. Toyota's 'had' an SS since 2014 that still no one has seen. I've decided to curb my enthusiasm till the alleged new tech is on Amazon.

    That tends to happen with age and experience. We shall see.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    SteveInMN said:
    Beginning...to...hold...breath....NOW!!!..............................................

    Seriously, big claims from randos and others every couple weeks. Toyota's 'had' an SS since 2014 that still no one has seen. I've decided to curb my enthusiasm till the alleged new tech is on Amazon.
    Yea we are constantly deluged with these amazing battery tech breakthroughs just around the corner. Though looking at Tesla stock performance over the past month suggests that something big may be going on. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • MJSullivan56
    MJSullivan56 Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭✭
    #7
    “Well if the Fusion dudes can do it, why can’t we?”
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    I'll bet it was all BS. Far too good to be true. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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