The price of off grid security.

softdown · February 2022

I have surly neighbors who know that I head out of town on a regular basis. I used to average $50-100/month in losses due to theft. After the pandemic and the purchase of heavy equipment my monthly losses have soared to an average of $400-500/month. Something major had to be done.

I recently installed three separate Ring Floodlight Cam Wired Plus in outdoor locations. The resulting battery voltage drain is significant for these reasons:
They require the router to be on 24/7. First they communicate data to the router then I receive smartphone data. Each new camera installation resulted in slightly lower morning voltage readings.
I'm guessing here - I figure the router and each camera consumes about 30 watts each. A steady 120 watt load is not a big deal with grid power. It is a significant deal when relying on far more expensive battery power.

I'm in it this far and am staying with the Ring spotlight cams. But I'd look closer at power consumption of security cams if doing it again. A friend also suffered from pandemic related theft losses and installed video cams that also relay footage to his smartphone. But they do not have powerful spotlights to illuminate transgressors. Nor do they issue a verbal warning that the perpetrator is being recorded.

Game cameras are an energy efficient way to capture motion. But I found it very unpleasant to climb a ladder and dig out the data card for viewing on a laptop. It was also frustrating to sort through hundreds/thousands of images of me or the dogs roaming about. The perp also has to be close to yield usable data on a typical game cam in my experience. Five acres is challenging to properly monitor.

The perps are all brazen enough to manipulate fence lines and containers to facilitate their transgressions. They come from the north, the south, and the west. Mostly from the north, that neighbor always knows if I am there or not. He once said "You should take pictures, that is all you will have left". I suspect his "shedmate" is doing a lot of the theft.

When building off grid take a long hard look at local crime stats. My county has more than its share of crime.

MJSullivan56 · February 2022

Yikes. Do these folks consider themselves preppers? (Not in my book) Or is this more of a drug-related issue?

Saggys · February 2022

We use game cameras linked to our phones. Not the best but energy efficient and cheap. That has to be very annoying to have neighbors like that.

softdown · February 2022

MJSullivan56 said:

Yikes. Do these folks consider themselves preppers? (Not in my book) Or is this more of a drug-related issue?

Avid potheads. I think its more of a look at all his stuff and how little I have. It isn't fair so I'll help myself. I built a really big place in the middle of nowhere. Then Colorado became the first to legalize pot and we got a huge influx of the biggest potheads one could find. Don't consider pot a true drug and I don't know about any other drug predilections. Wouldn't surprise me though.

It is annoying beyond measure. Comes mostly from the northern neighbor - he knows when I am gone.

Surfpath · March 2022

Hi Softdown,
I have a lot of practical experience in this area.

In short I suggest you look at the Blink security camera system. My unit draws a tiny amount, les than 12 watts. Also look at Yolink, they have very good motion detectors that have extremely good range. Game changing. These units can be found at the manufacture website, or on Amazon. Check out the reviews.

All of the systems have their couple of drawbacks, however they are way more practical than game cams and the two units can work together to allow you to identify thieves from a distance, as well as record those thieves if they ever come nearby. Of course some basic form of Internet is required.

Marc Kurth · March 2022

Another approach is to consider your location as being less than optimum for your needs. Without unlimited funds, you cannot protect yourself on your own from the types of perps you describe.

Just think about how bad they will be to deal with when the SHTF. I am not minimizing the effort/expense/turmoil involved. Honestly analyzing that potential future caused me to take a hard look at the cost/benefit ratio of where I was. Four years ago, I sold my custom home and ten acres in the woods that I expected to stay on forever. It was downright painful in some ways and I had to make some compromises - but I know that I made the right move.

Just food for thought.

Marc

JRHill · March 2022

This subject hits us squarely. We have one full time neighbor half a mile away and he is trustworthy. But he doesn't have a view of the only road in and out. Our problem is the nearest very small, unincorporated town. There are plenty of nor-do-well folks there. They have been caught trespassing and snooping, poaching game and firewood trees and just in general looking for opportunities. Six years ago I experimented and bought some Dakota Alert stuff: a base unit and two UV motion sensors. They are wireless for almost a quarter mile in dense forest (MURS band) and over a mile if flat and unobstructed. I like them so much I expanded it to four of the sensors which is the max. The batteries last at least 6 months. But they only do any good if you are at home to hear the alert from the base unit or handheld which announces zone 1 through 4. I did get their handheld for that band and its excellent for long range two way with the base unit. Much better than any FRS radios out there. Works wonderful if we are hunting our own land or cutting.

Other than that I put in a perimeter fence of 5' non-climb with two rows of barbed on top. About 2000'. Glad that's done. That took care of the other thieves which are small and big cats, bears and coyotes, skunks, possums and ??. Only once was the fence violated and it was a young cougar that killed a sheep. We didn't get it but it never came back for any additional meals. As for the two legged thieves we came to understand that thieves are lazy. If they can't drive to haul their booty it is to our advantage so I built some 5/8" cable gates from old abandoned logging cable in a place they can't get around. Its a PITB but has solved the cruising. 1 1/2 mile away a HD swing gate (#3) was added at the turn off from the country road. It's never been locked but with the warning signs its pretty obvious. Private road. Land owners and invited guests ONLY.

Lastly we have three Catahoula Leopard dogs. They LOVE people they know and it only takes 10 minutes to do so (each time) if we are here to make introductions which is a specific process. But we don't want our working dogs killed by a thief so is is mainly a four legged solution. But I believe the doggies' reputation has gotten around. That's fine with us.

I would love to add a WiFi video camera. I just don't want another thing with throw away batteries so I'm watching for effective options as stuff matures. We are way off grid with no utilities or cell. We recently replaced Hughes with Starlink so I'm not worried about bandwidth. WooHoo.

Surfpath · March 2022

Hi again,
I now read that you used to have the Dakota alert system just like we did. I think it’s important to say that the PIR range for the Dakota alert sensors is about 20 to 25 feet, compared to the YoLink which is about 10 to 12 feet. However The YoLink will send a message to your smart phone (if it’s connected to Internet) when an alert is triggered, while the Dakota alert only sent a message to the base unit in the house.
The actual “base unit to sensor” range for the Dakota alert is about the same as the YoLink, maybe the Dakota is just a tad longer. But only by say 10 feet.

Surfpath · March 2022

One other small tip that may be helpful, if you the yolink system. I used the same bird box that I got with my Dakota alert sensor to mount the YoLink sensor. It actually mounts fine inside the bird box but sideways.

JRHill · March 2022

TY Surfpath. Much appreciated.

I do have a .308 with a night scope and I have a backhoe. But I just don't want to go there. Stupid people....

JRHill · April 2022

Surfpath said:

Hi Softdown,
I have a lot of practical experience in this area.
In short I suggest you look at the Blink security camera system. My unit draws a tiny amount, les than 12 watts. Also look at Yolink, they have very good motion detectors that have extremely good range. Game changing. These units can be found at the manufacture website, or on Amazon. Check out the reviews.
All of the systems have their couple of drawbacks, however they are way more practical than game cams and the two units can work together to allow you to identify thieves from a distance, as well as record those thieves if they ever come nearby. Of course some basic form of Internet is required.

I took another look at Blink Outdoor cameras yesterday. There are two things that keep me from "pulling the trigger" (forgive the pun).

#1 is the range. I see that the camera(s) communicate with the Blink Sync Module via their own proprietary low freg signal and it is limited to approx 100'. It is slightly more than that from the house to the most important monitoring camera. But if I locate the Sync Module at the shop I can be at under 100' but its a metal building. If I could locate the Sync Module in a weatherproof enclosure high and on the outside of the shop I should be good for range, obstruction free and with a full wi-fi signal. I'd also have power. I'm a bit concerned with temperature range as it has gotten as hot as 110F in the summer to low single digits in the winter.

#2 is my internet: StarLink (the newer rectangular dishy). The darn thing has no ethernet port and no WPS for easy wi-fi set-up. So I need a way to enter IP stuff, the SSID and password, etc.. I can't locate the detailed configuration info prior to the Blink purchase and I don't want to buy the stuff as an experiment.... And I don't want to be forced into buying the optional and perpetually backordered Starlink device that adds a ethernet port but disables its on board wi-fi just to add my own router so I can configure the Blink stuff.

I may end up getting the Starlink port add-on anyway cause I have a some devices that are ethernet only and they are out of service now - like my Outback Mate3s

Any input from someone using Blink Outdoor cameras?

BB. · April 2022

I have about 5 or so of them around two different homes... So far, the Li Ion AA batteries (2x per) seem to be lasting pretty well. So far, 1x year and batteries are still fine (rarely falls to freezing here--And not too hot either).

They do have "limited" WIFI range--The other control link does work better (longer distances)--But still not ideal. For WIFI, I use a WIFI repeater for some that were having WIFI reception issues (outside of s stucco+chicken wire home).

If you can hardware cameras--You will get longer recording times and something like a 4 second pre-roll and 10-20+ second record time+10 second retrigger delay (longer times, more battery usage, less battery life).

If you can put a WIFI access point + Blink Sync module at the more distant site--You probably will be happier.

Or go with Ring (or some other) 120 VAC hardwired system, have white light motion lamps and no worry about batteries (still WIFI range limitations).

-Bill

JRHill · April 2022

BB. said:

They do have "limited" WIFI range--The other control link does work better (longer distances)--But still not ideal. For WIFI, I use a WIFI repeater for some that were having WIFI reception issues (outside of s stucco+chicken wire home).

If you can hardware cameras--You will get longer recording times and something like a 4 second pre-roll and 10-20+ second record time+10 second retrigger delay (longer times, more battery usage, less battery life).

If you can put a WIFI access point + Blink Sync module at the more distant site--You probably will be happier.

Or go with Ring (or some other) 120 VAC hardwired system, have white light motion lamps and no worry about batteries (still WIFI range limitations).

-Bill

Bill, if I understand correctly the Blink Outdoor cameras work via their own low frequency band to the Sync Module and then wi-fi from the sync module to the router? Are you saying the cameras utilize the low freq AND wi-fi (or hard wire)?

Its strange to research cause I've tried to find detailed instructions and configuration stuff for both the Blink and the Ring units and its some kind of secret club. Seems they want you to buy the stuff just to find out you can't make it work in certain circumstances. I've steered away from the Ring stuff because I've seen several references to an approx 10' distance from the camera's UV sensor to the subject. I need double that. I'm not worried about power draw. Another trench is a downer and I'd hate to lose the operational performance if going wireless as you state. Thanks for the info.

BB. · April 2022

As far as I can tell, the Sync module:

WIFI=>Sync Module=>Cameras (up to 10x cameras for control per sync mod) (low camera battery consumption for "control"?)
WIFI=>Outdoor Camera (Video) (higher power camera battery consumption for Video?)

At my in-laws... I have 1x Sync Module and 3x cameras. And use an inexpensive WIFI extender for the camera(s) (both Ring and Blink extensions) that are having difficulty because of distance and walls for WIFI. The Sync Module seems to have about 2x the distance support (pure guess) as WIFI.

I agree that it is difficult to figure out the details without purchasing the hardware. And there seem to have been a bit of "feature creep" from a year ago when I got them both. I installed in two different homes (our home and in-laws). At the time, I could not buy a second Sync Module (old style of out stock, new style was only available in a camera kit--As I recall). Now can buy a second (or more) Sync Module

For Blink: The Sync Mod 2 has a USB port on it (if you have a cloud account, not sure USB does anything useful)... I think your cameras (only outdoor cameras that connect through Sync Mod--The inside and door came do not connect via Sync Mod--As I understand). It is really unclear how the local USB storage works. If you have a "cloud account" (standard account?), the cameras only will store to Cloud... Will not store to USB (and if Internet is Down, then the cameras are out of service--I think). It is confusing...

The Blink outdoor cameras use IR (infrared) detection... Just an updated version of outdoor motion detection lights. There is a screen you can use to "block" tripping (5x5 matrix) and some "privacy zones too" (no recording, no trip).

The Blink camera is not particularly fast or sensitive for IR trips. On occasion, can walk out front door and not trip (like most motion control lights, they seem to work better on left/right motion, and straight to/from camera, not so much. The interior and door bell (?) cameras do not seem use the IR Detector (heat type)... But just use "short IR" and camera logic to detect motion.

Some details:

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/sync-module-2/sync-module-2-technical-details

https://support.blinkforhome.com/en_US/sync-module-2/sync-module-2-local-storage-operation

With "near IR" cameras, at night, you have an IR Black/White color pallet... For example, most outdoor jackets and such are synthetics... In white light, the jacket may be black. But in Near IR, the jacket looks white. With White Light illumination (typical 120 VAC powered), much better color rendering once lights are tripped.

For both Blink and Ring, more or less, 3 or more cameras is their Full Price plan... 1 or 2 camera plans are cheaper.

With two homes, I combine both into "one plan" (save money). But each brand has a completely different setup for motion capture/arming the two homes.

With Blink, I can turn on/off detection for each home... But if "alerts" are "on", then "everyone" is notified. Sort of works for me because my in-laws are getting up there in age--So keeping track of them is useful.

With Ring, I can "Arm" either or both homes... But the "alerts" are device specific... I can have Ring Armed for my in-laws on their (using Android) tablets, but no alerts on my phone/tablets. And I can turn on my home RIng, and not "bother" my in-laws with my alerts on their tablets.

This stuff can change (the Ring multiple site stuff has changed almost a year ago--For the better)... And it is possible that either or both Ring/Blink can be configured different/better for my "two home use"... But this is what I have settled on for now and it works fine.

Neither system seems to work if Internet down (Blink may--But not clear). I put Ring outdoor cameras up with white light floods were I can. Put out Blink for random outdoor locations not near power.

Hope this helps... I have not played with any configuration details for the last year... Other than internet outages, pretty reliable. Have had a "Blink camera" disappear for an hour(?) and then reboot and comeback a couple times over the last year.

If anyone else has some hints and tricks for Blink+Ring, I would enjoy reading about them.

-Bill

JRHill · April 2022

Well, I have time to plan this. I'm just not satisfied with features and technicalities at more distant points from the house and nearing the end of wi-fi range. For now I'll just continue to use a game camera and suffice with after the fact information from a SD card.

checkthisout · April 2022

Hello. In my system I run:

5 Reolink POE cameras (2 of them are 4k) they have smart motion alerts for cars and people so you get very few false alerts.

An amazon echo dot using the headphone out jack which runs to a 100 watt peak amplifier and to a loudspeaker. You use the Amazon app on your phone and "drop in" on the echo dot and can yell at intruders with the loudspeaker.

My Inverter and some outdoor lighting can be turned on and off with Alexa voice commands on my phone or another echo dot. I could also make this full motion or interruptible beam activated if needed. This all runs over cellular internet.

In total, the 5 cameras, a generator relay control box, a cellular modem, an asus router running in AP mode, the amazon echo dot and amplifier and sonoff 4 relay control box and a MINI PC that I remote into

These use about 1 KWh per day or 41 watts draw. Your draw seems awfully high with far less equipment.

Cost varies depending on how much data I feel like using when I occupy the place but for basic security monitoring, downloading video when needed and looking at the cameras for amusement it's about $30.00 for 10 Gigs of data per month.

JRHill · April 2022

Sigh, no cell network. Only new gen Starlink wi-fi. Don't get me wrong. The Starlink is the 1st time we've been able to make a call for 15 years. But its a BITB for anything ethernet and older stuff that needs WPS to set up. Our needs re just too strange. Not a place in the hood.

softdown · April 2022

I got three Ring spotlight cams. Bought the plan that stores video for the first one immediately. Today I added a one year plan to the other two. Year plan saves "$6" over monthly. But they made the plans expire in December!

Worth it to bitch? Don't know. Have to pick my battles sometimes. Business owners seem to constantly get shorted, they don't have the time to fight quite often.

FWIW - I started getting tons of false alarms on the day that the "one month free" expired. So I am suspicious. But I get robbed so terribly often that I'd likely drop soap in prison if it would end the constant robberies. Constant. Used to be 50-100/mt. They stepped it up to 500-1000/mt when I started dragging home heavy equipment. I move stuff around - constantly. It is hard to constantly be locking things up when you may not be done.

Yesterday I discovered another dead FLA Prius battery. Yep, left the hatch open before running out of town for a couple days. Most modern chargers will not recognize a truly dead battery. Progress?

JRHill · April 2022

I came across an app called alfred.camera yesterday. It's kind of interesting in that it can use an old smartphone with no current service. I'm experimenting with an old Samsung Galaxy 5 that was just sitting around in a drawer. It is kind of cute and works fairly well over just wi-fi between the phone and my laptop. The phone is just outside my gate and at the fuzzy edge of wi-fi range, alternating between 1 and two bars. The app keeps the video streaming constantly and will capture and record blips of activity. And it does have a pretty good range for triggering a capture and has two way sound as well as some other cute features. Not to mention being free for the basic functions.

One downside is the battery draw down is pretty rapid, esp. with an old phone with an old battery. I have a few power bricks that I thought to use to extend the life but the model of phone is working against me and I'm still trying to find a way to make the screen sleep while the app is running. The other downside of external power is the possibility of the phone's internal battery bloating from overheating. If I could 'root' the phone I could solve the issue but that model of phone is known to be a problem.

Anyway, its worth investigating, for me anyway.

Surfpath · May 2022

JR
Perhaps the Yoink product is worth considering again? Since you started this thread I’ve had more experience with my system. They don’t have a camera device yet, but apparently are working on it. Their outdoor sensors are tiny, maybe a sixth of the size of the Dakota unit sensor? I also read that they have a 10 year battery version available. Although I can’t report on the battery life of my unit since I only installed it a few months ago.

If you just want to know that someone is there, and perhaps the direction they’re traveling in, the YoLink system seems to be pretty cool. Alerts can be communicated by Internet, but they also have a MMS feature. I’m not quite sure how the latter works however I do know that I have received alerts even when the Internet is out.

JRHill · May 2022

I am completely happy with the Dakota Alert stuff (4 PIR sensors, base station and handheld two way). What I was missing was real time picture/video of the main gate as everting has to come and go through there. So I've just stayed with a game camera for now. The "alfred.camera" attempt was pretty cool but its really only good for short term use as it is so battery heavy. Also, the gate is just over 150' away and I am right at the boundary of wifi. So I'm calling it good as can be for now. If we travelled or had the place unattended more the priorities would be drastically different.

The price of off grid security.

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