Gas consumption of Honda 3500?

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
Providing ~ 5 KwH/day? Waiting for replacement inverter which is next Monday or Tuesday.

The diesel is noisy! Plus minimizing undue wear and tear seems prescient. It is reasonable in energy consumption at almost 5 gallons/12 hours. About 40-45% of 1 gallon/hour.

Got a well used Honda 3500 at auction last month. Fired up very easily and that is all I have done with it.

Why not use the Honda? At least during waking hours. See how it does? If it goes belly up I'm out ~ $400.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    For a gasoline non-inverter genset... Generally try to load it at 50% to 80% of rated power... If you run at less than ~50% of rated power, fuel flow will remain about the same (only decrease a bit)--Causing you to burn more fuel per kWH (i.e., running at 25% of power, nearly 50% of fuel flow).

    Say genset is rated full power at 2,800 Watts and your 5 gallons per 12 hours is at 50% of rated output.:
    • 5 gallons / 12 hours = 042 Gallons per hour--Guessing that is at 50% of electrical loading (how many "residential" gensets are rated)
    • 2,800 Watts * 0.50 rated load * 1 hour runtime / 0.42 gph = 3,333 WH / Gallon = 3.3 kWH per gallon.
    That is a bit on the "not fuel efficient side"--But it is what you have. Since you will not be topping off your batteries to conserve fuel (typically cycling between 50% and 80% for day use, charging to near 100% once a week). That means if you can charge through charger/inverter-charger/etc. at ~1,400 Watts:
    • 5,000 WH per day * 1/0.80 charger+battery losses * 1/1,400 Watts = 4.5 hours per day
    • 0.42 gph (at 50% rated output) * 4.5 hours = 1.9 gallons of gasoline per day (6 days a week)
    For the battery bank, keeping charge to 80-90% maximum and cutting genset will save you fuel. You don't want to charge to 100%/EQ unless you have too (low rate of charge, not efficient fuel usage on lightly loaded genset).

    The inverter-generators are fairly fuel efficient down to 25% of rated load and tend to be much more fuel efficient than typical non-inverter gensets for random/lower power continuous loads. If you can load your genst to 50%+ of rated output with programmable or "right size" charger--You can save a lot of fuel costs (i.e., running your genset at 25% or less will still consume nearly 0.42 gph--Or cost you 2x more fuel per day because of a poor genset to charger to battery bank match).

    The 3.3 kWH per gallon number--Seems a little on the "low side"--Perhaps closer to 4.4 kWH per gallon @ 50% loading--But is in the ballpark (of what I would guess) and should be a good number to start planning on genset backup and fuel storage for X days of running.

    You might also look at a new higher altitude jet for better performance/reduced fuel usage:

    http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf (example jet chart for Honda eu2000i)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beware of PF ( power factor ) issues with small inverter generators, as the inverter is not very robust.  And what AC voltage does your inverter want [ 120V or 240V ] get a generator that can meet that requirement.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    I'll just try a couple others pretty soon. The diesel ran out of fuel at 4:30am - a true surprise. I also have a newish ~1600 watt Yamaha with an off brand inverter  - it might be up to the task.

    I think diesel technology is generally far better at extended idling at low demands. Though I wonder about running 24/7, It is a Kubota engine though - they enjoy a solid reputation in the machine world.

    The generator keeps my batteries charged at 56 volts it would seem. Wondering about that. One usually relies on the sun for daily battery cycling.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:
    .....
    I think diesel technology is generally far better at extended idling at low demands..........
    Historically, diesels WANT to be loaded, to avoid "Cold Stacking" where a cold running engine starts to gunk up with unburned fuel residues.  Running below 50% load used to cause this damage.  Maybe there's something new out now.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    So the Yamaha Inverter genset is a 2000 watt model. After running awhile I decided to try the lower speed. That lowers the rpm's a lot and still gets the job done. When a freezer kicks on the genset stutters for a fraction of a second then kicks into high rpms for ~1/2 second before settling into a higher than normal idle while the freezers compressor is running.

    I am running two large freezers off of it. One is a monster with two lids - about 20 cubic feet as memory serves. Does not seem to be energy efficient and it runs a lot. The other is 14 cubic feet and ready for more supplies. There is a LOT of talk of not allowing the unjabbed to engage in commerce. What a can of worms that nightmare is.

    Did an oil and filter change on the Kubota diesel. That is a CHORE if you forgot the nuances of how it is done. Brought back memories of my prepping days though. Found 14 new oil filters underneath - 12 in a case. Must have found a heckuva deal.

    With a load on the genset I expect to burn about 1/4 gallon/hour or so. Plus it is much quieter and less smoky.

    The smoke from the diesel is likely hot air since no measurable oil has been used. But it kind of stinks.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Issue with the yamaha 2000 watt inverter genset, The fuel tank is tiny. Not sure if it even holds a gallon. No way it can run all night while I sleep. Night time will be diesel time - I believe it has a 5 gallon fuel tank.

    All the experts agree - quality sleep is extremely important. That precludes filling up the genset fuel tank in the middle of the night.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021 #8
    There are extended run tank adapters for the yamaha inverter generators.  Some siphon fuel from elevated tank, some mods add a vacuum powered fuel pump to keep the generator going all night. Use your best judgement.


    https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29282276.cfm

    Looks like the "add a vacuum pump" is the safer/reliable version
    https://www.pinellaspowerproducts.com/product/yamaha-ef2000is-extended-run-time-fuel-kit/

    Honda has a suction pump in their tanks, and I also got a "fill/drain" kit for the oil changes, which at 50 hour intervals, can come rapidly.
    There may be a extended run kit for the Harbor Freight generators too


    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Hazards of the curious mind: On paper - it should have handled a 1300 watt microwave for 4 minutes. It survived for a little over 2 minutes. No longer powers the house for over 1/2 minute - even with 1 of the 2 freezers shut down. Did not see that coming.

    Whatever I did to the diesel genset - now it smokes like hell. Logical reason is a bit of gas thrown in, The Germans did that to help the diesels start in freezing conditions. Many still do it. But the smoke? Bloody hell!

    Oil change should not be traumatic. Used Mobil 10W-30 as usual - as I recall.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Three possible reasons for the Yamaha 2000 watt inverter genset no longer powering the house - even with one of the freezers shut down:
    1) Genset was somehow injured by excessive load while microwaving pot pie.
    2) Genset received some gas that was too old to do the job. Though it worked fine until the microwave incident.
    3) Freezer was injured by insufficient power and no longer works properly. Requires much more power now.

    Since the genset was working fine in low output mode - seems quite odd that it won't get the job done in high output mode with a freezer disconnected as well.

    Sort of reminds one of my rails against modern technology. Things are so danged delicate. Seem to be short lived of course, part of being delicate.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you add gas to the diesel, no more than 10%.   
      If you have glazed the cylinders with unburned fuel, you may be looking at a tear-down to re-hone the cylinders and then never run less than 50% load.

     Smoke is either overload or semi-clogged injectors.  Injectors use a copper crush washer to seal, have a spare before you pull the injector.  Sometimes the injectors get a clump of carbon burned onto them, and you can flick it off with a strong fingernail.

    a more interesting cleaning technique is water injection on a thoroughly heated up engine. Get a spray bottle of distilled water, pop the air cleaner off ( while engine is running under load) and spray a mist of water into the intake. Somehow, the effect is to steam clean the cylinder and injector, and cleans some of the carbon out.  Won't help the rings much. spray for a minute, wait a minute, spray a minute
    and repeat a couple times, then let the engine run under load for at least a couple more minutes to get all the moisture out of the intake, or you rust the intake valve up.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Just seems odd that it happened so suddenly. As soon as I finished the oil and filter change in fact. I also popped out the fuel filter for examination and cleaning.

    With no fuel in the filter it was much harder to start. Took a good 4-5 seconds and seemed to labor a bit - as though the battery was not fully charged. It had only been off for a few hours so this was all a surprise. The sound of the piston rings rubbing against the cylinder walls also seemed abnormal. As though there was no oil. But then - there likely was no oil for a few seconds as the oil pump had to fill the new oil filter first. The filter is mounted sideways so there is no way to fill it first. Plus I've never had to pre fill an oil filter in a million miles on the road.

    What was more concerning is that the second start up, a short time later, was almost as rough sounding.

    The percentage of gasoline could not be over 10%. Yet that had better be the issue with the smoke. Though it doesn't seem right. I am somewhat prepared for the realization that this Kubota diesel somehow had a horrible reaction to an oil and filter change.

    Still have hopes for the small inverter genset. Hoping something got too hot and has now cooled off sufficiently. If both gensets went belly up I will be perplexed. Seems my luck either runs impossibly good or impossibly bad.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Double success so far! The diesel engine smoke was caused by a dirty air filter. I must have improved the seal when I examined the filter. It has no dust which is what we always look for. But it was dark in color. Good thing I had a spare. The silver lining of all this is I had already put together an order for more air and fuel filters yesterday. My experience is that diesel gensets are prone to fatally clogging their air filter.

    The inverter genset also seems happily healed. It has been powering the house for ten minutes now. I will try putting it back in slower mode at some point. Almost had to have been heat that wounded it yesterday evening. 1300 watts from the microwave and I'll guess both freezers turned on simultaneously. Perhaps the charge controller also decided to boost the battery charge a bit. Perhaps the slow speed mode is woefully inadequate for anything over, say, 1600 watts or something?

    That was all a WOW experience.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021 #14
    Glad it was just an air filter !

    The inverter genset fuel/noise saver mode has trouble handling surges.   I can actually stall my eu2000 with a heavy load, but it's just fine at ful speed setting.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    Glad it was just an air filter !

    The inverter genset fuel/noise saver mode has trouble handling surges.   I can actually stall my eu2000 with a heavy load, but it's just fine at ful speed setting.

    Thanks - I'll try it at full speed tomorrow. The diesel is currently the chosen unit for overnight usage due to the large fuel tank and proven reliability. I am not overly fond of power outages at 3am. Or 4am.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Do you really need to run 24/7?  In the past I've had power (main inverter) outages and have just run the genset for maybe 1 hour...off for 3, rinse and repeat.

    Doesn't help if there's no inverter to power from the batteries.  Haven't re-read the thread, so please forgive if off topic.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Ralph Day said:
    Do you really need to run 24/7?  In the past I've had power (main inverter) outages and have just run the genset for maybe 1 hour...off for 3, rinse and repeat.

    Doesn't help if there's no inverter to power from the batteries.  Haven't re-read the thread, so please forgive if off topic.

    Yes - for the freezers.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:

    Yes - for the freezers.

    I agree. Yes, we all know that we can "coast" while relying on the thermal mass to stay below 32F.  BUT, I am a firm believer in keeping them well below 0F at all times for both food quality and long-term preservation.

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:

    Yes - for the freezers.

    I agree. Yes, we all know that we can "coast" while relying on the thermal mass to stay below 32F.  BUT, I am a firm believer in keeping them well below 0F at all times for both food quality and long-term preservation.


    I would do that with cheaper grid power. As we all know off grid power comes at a dearer price.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Just to be clear--You are Off Grid with panels+batteries+inverter? If so, just bulk charge battery bank with genset 6 days a week (such as ~50-80% daily) and >90% with "absorb" charge once a week.

    Generally an "acceptable" Lead Acid battery operational profile--Does not damage/shorten life and is much more genset/fuel usage friendly if you had a solar charger/array failure.

    If you had an AC inverter failure--This might be where a cheap AC inverter is used to power your minimum needed loads (such as fridge/freezer/LED lightning/cell phone charging) until you can fix/replace the main inverter.

    I have seem to have forgotten what failed on your system--And realize that it was probably your inverter that failed.

    Hence the question of running genset a couple times a day or full time for fridge/freezer operation.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021 #21
    The Honda 3500 is rated at 3000 watts output and 3500 surge. It is MSW (modified sine wave) I'm sure - the LEDs flicker a bit when using it. I figure stuff can handle a few days of Honda MSW - shouldn't be overly barbaric.

    It is pretty efficient. Since I only have $400 invested in it - figure it will rack up some cheap wear and tear. I figure it is using about 1/3 gallon/hour - or less. Plus it holds at least 4 gallons so it will serve overnight duty from now on. The 2000 watt inverter does about 6 hours with 1 gallon. The diesel runs for 10 hours with 5 gallons.

    The inverter made Commerce City, Colorado on Friday evening. It is still there! So a Tuesday(!) delivery is expected. A full week after the inverter loss. EDIT: Can Ingsoc resist some "modifications"?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    I like modeling the problem... Say $4.00 a gallon for gasoline or diesel. 24 hours per day x 5 days assuming same AC load against all three gensets.
    • 24 hours * 1/6 gph (Yamaha 2000i) * 5 days = 20 gallons of gas for 5 days
    • 20 gallons * $4.00 per gallon = $80.00
    • 24 hours * 1/3 gph (Honda 3500) * 5 days = 40 gallons of gas for 5 days
    • 40 gallons * $4.00 per gallon = $160.00
    • 24 hours * 1/2 gph (Diesel) * 5 days = 60 gallons of Diesel for 5 days
    • 60 gallons * $4.00 per gallon = $240
    Not giving you hard numbers (guesses)--But it kind of puts the infrastructure needs up front (hauling/storing 20 gallons vs 60 gallons of fuel, $80 vs $240 from cheap to expensive)--Assuming your AC loads are the same between the 3 gensets (guessing 600 Watts?).

    This is the sort of need vs wants vs practical modeling I went through for my backup generators (vs buying the first one because it was "on sale").

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2021 #23
    Bill, Excellent "food for thought" post.  Like you, I have two eu2000i generators and then I was given a Honda EB5000 by a good friend. I am always looking at what makes the most sense to run based on a given set of parameters,
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    Me being me - I make things more complicated by considering:
    Diesel fuel stores much longer and is far less flammable.
    Inverter genset holds 1 gallon - won't do overnight service.
    3500 is pretty noisy and puts out a MSW.
    Inverter genset has been prone to shutting down though it worked alright at full speed today. But two days ago it worked alright at low speed servicing an additional freezer. Plus it ran a big microwave for 2 minutes which ultimately injured it some how.
    Diesel soot clogs up air filters.
    Diesel fuel filters are also prone to getting clogged it would seem. Spare parts can be timely.

    Looks like 7 days. The inverter arrived at Commerce City, Colorado on Friday evening. It is still there.

    Lessons:
    Have a couple gensets. Stuff happens. All the time.
    Have ample fresh fuel in case of storm or empty pockets.
    Don't count on the hardware lasting as long as it likely should.
    If you have a lot of frozen food your losses could be quite painful. I just happened to be here when it happened.
    You can bypass the inverter and power your house with - different inverters have different "gear" for that. I had to call Northern Arizona to learn how to do it. I was preparing to cut up the power cable and hard wire it into the breaker box.


    And I'm still not sure that swapping the inverter out will be straight forward. I hired a pro to do the final hook ups last time. I've since done some successful hook ups and a couple less than successful. Solar equipment has to be wired in a very precise order and manner.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    If the charge controller quits my large battery bank should about last 4 days. Inverter didn't have a second of warning. So inverters are much more critical in that respect.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    For my 10kw diesel genset I had no fuel tank with it.  Had a local welder fab up a 30 gallon tank with appropriate fittings for filling, fuel supply and return and flanges/ears to mount to the garage wall.  30 gallons lasted a long time at .55gal per hour.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    No problem with choices including other requirements--Such as long run time vs 1 gallon integral fuel tank.

    That was a major reason I picked the (then) Honda eu2000i (eu2200i is same) because it had a mechanical fuel pump that could draw a slight vacuum in the fuel tank and a hose attached to (what is normally vented fuel cap) can just be dropped into a 5 gallon fuel tank (or even marine outboard tank) and run for 1-2+ days on an external fuel source).

    No warranty violating modifications, no taking apart genset to update with fuel pump).

    Each of us makes our own decisions based on our needs and circumstances.

    I had always thought there were not enough small genset/long run time options out there--Especially diesel options... Adding an external tank, some sort of oil system for continuous running (more capacity, oil filter, magnetic particle trap, etc.)... The big thing being that only needed enough power to run a fridge and a few other small appliances 24x7 during outages or solar system failures.

    Diesel is not as popular in the US as in Europe (most urban fuel stations do not pump diesel--at least in our area). And the heavy noisy motor means heavier/less portable genset (with more sound insulation). Probably is just not a market out there that is willing to pay the costs and the drawbacks.

    Propane/natural gas options these days are probably a better fit for many/most homes for emergency backup--If not choosing gasoline.

    The "tri-fuel" gensets look like a neat solution and give the option using natural gas or stored fuel as situations present themselves--But seem to be mostly in the somewhat larger gensets. Left to doing our own aftermarket conversion to propane/natural gas for the 2 kWatt models.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset