Charger Xantrex 6048

EdwinJacob · September 2021

hello I have a problem with my system, I have installed a xantrex 6048, AGS, SCP. the problem is that when I start the generator manually to charge the batteries, the inverter's Gen AC2 led starts to blink. It takes about 30 seconds and it turns off the loads that I have connected to my AC system. automatically resets in seconds.

someone could support me with that problem.
Thanks
EJ

mike95490 · September 2021

You need to monitor the generator voltage and frequency with the SCP, and make sure the generator is producing good enough power to be accepted by the 6048. Also make sure the 6048 charger current is set to something reasonable. It defaults to 100A @ 52V which would need about a 8kw generator. Use the SCP to set the charge amps to something small - say about 6A, and then increment it larger until you find a setting that works for your generator, loads and battery charging requirements

RCinFLA · September 2021

You should be able to set max ACin amps on AC2 to stay within generator limits. It limits charging current if charger set higher then allowed ACin draw. Also determines when inverter will suppliment gen when ACout loads exceed generator capability.

Even when set wrong, I would think the inverter should release from generator before shutting down ACout loads, unless battery is so low it cannot support ACout loads or ACout loads exceed inverter capability.

Dave Angelini · September 2021

Also an Inverter/charger of this age could have a damaged AC2 transfer relay. A very common problem when not set-up correctly.
EJ, what is the genset you are trying to qualify?

EdwinJacob · September 2021

mike95490 said:

You need to monitor the generator voltage and frequency with the SCP, and make sure the generator is producing good enough power to be accepted by the 6048. Also make sure the 6048 charger current is set to something reasonable. It defaults to 100A @ 52V which would need about a 8kw generator. Use the SCP to set the charge amps to something small - say about 6A, and then increment it larger until you find a setting that works for your generator, loads and battery charging requirements

Thank you very much for your help, what is the section to adjust the current and frequency of the 6048 inverter generator? and where can I adjust the load amps?

I have a 48volt battery bank. They are 12 batteries of 12 volts. with a capacity of 172ah each.

I want them to charge the batteries when they are low voltage, so as not to be without electricity in my house. I have a total load of approximately 9.5 amps.

I have an 11kw diesel generator. before to connecting to the xantrex 6048, I corroborate the measurements with a multimeter,

Voltage 220vac

Frequency at 60hz.

I have the next configuration in my SCP of the inverter:

AC Settings: AC2 priority

AC2 breaker 56 amp

AC2 Lo Volt 90V

AC2 Hi volt 130V

AC2 Lo Freq 55hz

AC2 Hi Freq 65hz

Gen Supp mode Enable

GenSupp amps: 35.2 (which means)

Batt type: Flodded

batt capacity: 440 Ah

Max charge 100%

Charge cycle 2Stage

Recharge volts 50 v

Grid support: 54v

Low batt cut out: 44V

Thanks
EJ

EdwinJacob · September 2021

RCinFLA said:

You should be able to set max ACin amps on AC2 to stay within generator limits. It limits charging current if charger set higher then allowed ACin draw. Also determines when inverter will suppliment gen when ACout loads exceed generator capability.

Even when set wrong, I would think the inverter should release from generator before shutting down ACout loads, unless battery is so low it cannot support ACout loads or ACout loads exceed inverter capability

Could you tell me where to configure that data that you say?
I have the following configuration, could you tell me that it is wrong?

I have an 11kw diesel generator. before to connecting to the xantrex 6048, I corroborate the measurements with a multimeter,
Voltage 220vac
Frequency at 60hz.

I have the next configuration in my SCP of the inverter:

AC Settings: AC2 priority
AC2 breaker 56 amp
AC2 Lo Volt 90V
AC2 Hi volt 130V
AC2 Lo Freq 55hz
AC2 Hi Freq 65hz
Gen Supp mode Enable
GenSupp amps: 35.2 (which means)

Batt type: Flodded
batt capacity: 440 Ah
Max charge 100%
Charge cycle 2Stage
Recharge volts 50 v
Grid support: 54v
Low batt cut out: 44V

Thanks
EJ

EdwinJacob · September 2021

Dave Angelini said:

Also an Inverter/charger of this age could have a damaged AC2 transfer relay. A very common problem when not set-up correctly.
EJ, what is the genset you are trying to qualify?

After starting the diesel generator, the AC2 gen led blinks for approximately 30 seconds. It is heard where the transfer switch does the work and the electrical power is cut in my loads connected to the inverter.

It is a remote control start diesel electric generator. from 11kw adjustable to 120-220 volts.

Thanks

EJ

ELYNN4 · September 2021

You may be overloading your generator. I have my 9 kw generator AC 2 breaker set for 35 amps and limit the charge rate to 65%. That provides enough head room to carry the typical house loads and charge the 48v battery bank at 90 amps DC.

geosierranevada · September 2021

Are you sending 120 volts to the inverter? If I am not mistaken the inverter will not take 220 volts.
George. Have a nice day

EdwinJacob · September 2021

geosierranevada said:

Are you sending 120 volts to the inverter? If I am not mistaken the inverter will not take 220 volts.
George. Have a nice day

Hi the inverter is set to 220 volts, I am feeding the inverter from the generator with 220 volts

mike95490 · September 2021

geosierranevada said:

Are you sending 120 volts to the inverter? If I am not mistaken the inverter will not take 220 volts.
George. Have a nice day

The XW inverter is a 240V inverter, and because it's split phase, the internal metering lists each phase leg, separately..

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/8j/a8g4xn771rkg.jpg

RCinFLA · September 2021

EdwinJacob said:

mike95490 said:

You need to monitor the generator voltage and frequency with the SCP, and make sure the generator is producing good enough power to be accepted by the 6048. Also make sure the 6048 charger current is set to something reasonable. It defaults to 100A @ 52V which would need about a 8kw generator. Use the SCP to set the charge amps to something small - say about 6A, and then increment it larger until you find a setting that works for your generator, loads and battery charging requirements

Thank you very much for your help, what is the section to adjust the current and frequency of the 6048 inverter generator? and where can I adjust the load amps?
I have a 48volt battery bank. They are 12 batteries of 12 volts. with a capacity of 172ah each.
I want them to charge the batteries when they are low voltage, so as not to be without electricity in my house. I have a total load of approximately 9.5 amps.
I have an 11kw diesel generator. before to connecting to the xantrex 6048, I corroborate the measurements with a multimeter,
Voltage 220vac
Frequency at 60hz.

I have the next configuration in my SCP of the inverter:

AC Settings: AC2 priority
AC2 breaker 56 amp
AC2 Lo Volt 90V
AC2 Hi volt 130V
AC2 Lo Freq 55hz
AC2 Hi Freq 65hz
Gen Supp mode Enable
GenSupp amps: 35.2 (which means)

Batt type: Flodded
batt capacity: 440 Ah
Max charge 100%
Charge cycle 2Stage
Recharge volts 50 v
Grid support: 54v
Low batt cut out: 44V

Thanks
EJ

Believe the setting for AC2 max input current is called 'AC2 Breaker' Don't just set it to the breaker size, set it based on the max capability of generator.

For 56A setting you would limit to over 13 kW which exceeds your 11 kW generator. Check the manual, they may have put a fudge factor in firmware so 56A AC2 breaker setting actually limits input current to some percentage of 56A. (like 80% of setting, 45 amps)

Set it to about 85% of gen capability, or about 46 amps. Depends on how your generator acts as it gets loaded. If a sudden load boggs down generator rpm and changes its freq it will likely cause inverter to disconnect. In that case you would have to back down max AC2 amperage drawn by lowering AC2 breaker size setting. I don't have experience running 1800 rpm diesel gens on hybrid inverter but the lower rpm may give them more rpm variability under surge current loading.

How much you can pull from a given generator is not just based on its wattage rating. Into a hybrid inverter, it depends on how well behaved the generator is when a sudden load change happens. Hybrid inverters will not tolerate much instability in AC freq due to engine rpm govenor control variability.

Dave Angelini · September 2021

As you said in post 3 RC there is either bad user config or as I said a bad xfer relay. Others have also said the same in this post.

Is this a new to you old greybox XW from the internet? If so I would really suspect the unit as dropping of the genset should never interrupt AC out for more than 8 msec. One of the failure modes of the AC2 relay happens to also be the contact that switches inverter to AC out after the gen is dropped.

Also wrong in the settings is Gen Support being enabled. This is for very small generators and should not be used on anything over 3 to 5KW.

EdwinJacob · September 2021

RCinFLA said:

EdwinJacob said:

mike95490 said:

You need to monitor the generator voltage and frequency with the SCP, and make sure the generator is producing good enough power to be accepted by the 6048. Also make sure the 6048 charger current is set to something reasonable. It defaults to 100A @ 52V which would need about a 8kw generator. Use the SCP to set the charge amps to something small - say about 6A, and then increment it larger until you find a setting that works for your generator, loads and battery charging requirements

Thank you very much for your help, what is the section to adjust the current and frequency of the 6048 inverter generator? and where can I adjust the load amps?
I have a 48volt battery bank. They are 12 batteries of 12 volts. with a capacity of 172ah each.
I want them to charge the batteries when they are low voltage, so as not to be without electricity in my house. I have a total load of approximately 9.5 amps.
I have an 11kw diesel generator. before to connecting to the xantrex 6048, I corroborate the measurements with a multimeter,
Voltage 220vac
Frequency at 60hz.

I have the next configuration in my SCP of the inverter:

AC Settings: AC2 priority
AC2 breaker 56 amp
AC2 Lo Volt 90V
AC2 Hi volt 130V
AC2 Lo Freq 55hz
AC2 Hi Freq 65hz
Gen Supp mode Enable
GenSupp amps: 35.2 (which means)

Batt type: Flodded
batt capacity: 440 Ah
Max charge 100%
Charge cycle 2Stage
Recharge volts 50 v
Grid support: 54v
Low batt cut out: 44V

Thanks
EJ

Believe the setting for AC2 max input current is called 'AC2 Breaker' Don't just set it to the breaker size, set it based on the max capability of generator.

For 56A setting you would limit to over 13 kW which exceeds your 11 kW generator. Check the manual, they may have put a fudge factor in firmware so 56A AC2 breaker setting actually limits input current to some percentage of 56A. (like 80% of setting, 45 amps)

Set it to about 85% of gen capability, or about 46 amps. Depends on how your generator acts as it gets loaded. If a sudden load boggs down generator rpm and changes its freq it will likely cause inverter to disconnect. In that case you would have to back down max AC2 amperage drawn by lowering AC2 breaker size setting. I don't have experience running 1800 rpm diesel gens on hybrid inverter but the lower rpm may give them more rpm variability under surge current loading.

How much you can pull from a given generator is not just based on its wattage rating. Into a hybrid inverter, it depends on how well behaved the generator is when a sudden load change happens. Hybrid inverters will not tolerate much instability in AC freq due to engine rpm govenor control variability.

minimize AC2 amperage to about 45, then 30 to 20 amps. only the Gen AC2 led of the xw 6048 remains flashing. The charger A led is off. disable Gen support and the loads in my house no longer turn off. I don't know what else it could do to make it do its job of charging the batteries and feeding loads.

EJL

EdwinJacob · September 2021

Dave Angelini said:

As you said in post 3 RC there is either bad user config or as I said a bad xfer relay. Others have also said the same in this post.

Is this a new to you old greybox XW from the internet? If so I would really suspect the unit as dropping of the genset should never interrupt AC out for more than 8 msec. One of the failure modes of the AC2 relay happens to also be the contact that switches inverter to AC out after the gen is dropped.

Also wrong in the settings is Gen Support being enabled. This is for very small generators and should not be used on anything over 3 to 5KW.

Thank you very much for the feedback,

I am in a problem by not starting the XW6048 charger if you have any information about my configuration I would appreciate it.

Greetings.

Dave Angelini · September 2021

Turning gen support off kept the loads on no matter what the AC2 input is doing ? Correct? That is some good from all of this! You never answered how long you have had XW? Need answers to go much farther.

I would try the gen again with a 1kw load on it along with XW and watch the meters screen for AC2 frequency and voltage on L1 & L2. See if XW will transfer the gen on AC2 with the external load.

Or,

I would borrow another genset to verify that the XW transfer of AC2 is bad.

RCinFLA · September 2021

Inverter shutdown is normally only caused by low battery or extended overload on ACout. It should not shutdown inverter for AC input invalid unless relay sticks engaged after release commanded.

Maybe a very distorted generator sinewave can create a battery surge load that causes a shutdown. I still think that would be viewed as an invalid AC input and just cause a generator release, not an inverter shutdown. A very distorted sinewave from generator would likely cause inverter to improperly match the AC voltage of generator before connect relay was closed.

Do you see any alarm/error messages? When you say 'automatically resets' do you mean just ACout comes back on or does the unit actually go dark and does a system restart?

EdwinJacob · September 2021

Dave Angelini said:

Turning gen support off kept the loads on no matter what the AC2 input is doing ? Correct? That is some good from all of this! You never answered how long you have had XW? Need answers to go much farther.

I would try the gen again with a 1kw load on it along with XW and watch the meters screen for AC2 frequency and voltage on L1 & L2. See if XW will transfer the gen on AC2 with the external load.

Or,

I would borrow another genset to verify that the XW transfer of AC2 is bad.

If at the time I put the Gen Support disabled it kept the loads active. with the generator on and the Gen AC2 led flashing. Approximately leave the generator on for 40 to 60 seconds.

You tell me to reconnect the generator but now with a 1kw load. I can adjust that in the AC2 braker configuration? with how much amp could I regulate to get 1kw?

I will run a test with another generator.

Greetings

EJL

EdwinJacob · September 2021

RCinFLA said:

Inverter shutdown is normally only caused by low battery or extended overload on ACout. It should not shutdown inverter for AC input invalid unless relay sticks engaged after release commanded.

Maybe a very distorted generator sinewave can create a battery surge load that causes a shutdown. I still think that would be viewed as an invalid AC input and just cause a generator release, not an inverter shutdown. A very distorted sinewave from generator would likely cause inverter to improperly match the AC voltage of generator before connect relay was closed.

Do you see any alarm/error messages? When you say 'automatically resets' do you mean just ACout comes back on or does the unit actually go dark and does a system restart?

Hello, previously the only thing that the inverter did was show a line on the XW screen and in a matter of seconds it was reestablished, appearing the load that is being consumed.

I look at it as a reboot but it is very fast. disable Gen support and that didn't happen to me. I do not know why.

I think that it is something in the configuration that does not allow me to make the transfer properly.

If you manage to identify any abnormality in my configuration, let me know. please.

Regards

EJL

BB. · September 2021

To be clear (at least the usual genset "test") is to put a 1,000 Watt load on the genset to stabilize the frequency and voltage (and voltage wave form)... For example, use a simple electric room heater set on medium (typically around 800 Watts) to put an AC load on your genset--Then attempt to connect with the inverter.

When programming these complex inverters--There can be multiple settings that sort of "overlap" in effect. For example you may have a DC charging current limit (say 100 Amps * 59 volts charging = 5,900 Watt load)--And that one is rated in DC output charging current.

And you can have the AC(1 or 2) input breaker/current limit. And sometimes the inverter-charger may have its own derating--Such as you program a 30 amp circuit breaker and the inverter will derate by to 80% or 30a*0.8=24a maximum programmed draw (because North American breakers are typically rated to "NOT TRIP" at 80% or less load, and "WILL TRIP eventually" at 100%+ of rated load).

And to answer your question--The formula between Watts and Amperes (and it varies based on "line voltage"):

I = P / V = Current (amps) = Power (watts) / Voltage
I = 1,000 Watts / 120 VAC = 8.33 Amps
I = 1,000 Watts / 240 VAC = 4.2 Amps
I = 1,000 Watts / 48 VDC nominal battery bus voltage = 20.83 Amps

And when looking at genset loading--Make sure you understand how the inverter-charger draws current... Say you have a 3,000 Watt Genset and it draws supplies power at 120 VAC. Nominally I would suggest that the genset supply no more than 80% of rated output (battery charging can go at max rated current for hours--And can overheat the genset motor and/or alternator wiring):

3,000 Watt genst * 0.8 derating = 2,400 Watts
2,400 Watts / 120 VAC inverter feed = 20 Amp (120 VAC "breaker" max rating)
But if your inverter-charger derates--Then you don't want both the genset 80% derating and the inverter's 80% AC breaker rating, so:
3,000 Watts / 120 VAC = 25 Amp "inverter breaker rating"

But, if your inverter-charger has a 240 VAC genset input and you have a 120/240 VAC genset--You need to use 240 VAC as your "voltage base":

3,000 Watt genset / 240 VAC inverter input = 12.5 Amp "inverter-charger AC breaker rating"

-Bill

Dave Angelini · September 2021

Good Luck to you EJL. I need to know the history of this XW to go further. How did you get it and when. Sorry, but there are too many of these old XW's on ebay and similar that have their transfer relays damaged (from incorrect config) and they just keep getting sold to new victims. Tech support at Schneider told me that there was one that had 5 owners in 5 years with bad input relays.

Charger Xantrex 6048

Comments

Categories