Trace, SW4024/NorthernLights sudden incompatability

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Wishiknew
Wishiknew Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1 ✭
in Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems #1
Thoughts, anyone?
I'm stumped that my Trace, SW 4024 inverter/battery charger that has been working perfectly (for the last 20(!) years) with my old Northern LIghts 8KW Marine Generator, should suddenly start rejecting the output signal  from the latter and is no longer able to "synch up" with the generator in order to charge my batteries.  What's most curious is that both the generator and the inverter seem to work perfectly, as expected, when asked to perform independently of the other. That is to say, the generator runs other inverters and high loads and the inverter will synch up and run off of other generators as well as the grid (shore Power) when asked to do so, but for some reason both seem to be suddenly incompatible when hooked up together.
I'd appreciate any indulgence.
Nick

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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Hi wishi..,    Welcome to the Forum.

    Usually,  the first thing to suspect when an inverter will not accept a traditional genset's output,  is the genset's AC frequency.  Next,  might be the genset's output voltage is outside the qualification window (think that the voltage range is a Setting on the T SW).

    You might try placing some load on the genset's AC output  --  anything from a incandescent lamp (100-ish watts),  to a small portable heater, set to the lowest watt value.

    The SW should  flash the AC2 light during the time that it is qualifying the genset's output  ...  is this happening?

    Have you measured the AC2 terminals on the SW,   is there a reasonable voltage value there?   There is usually a voltage adjust provision on the genset.

    Have never needed to do this,  but you could try shutting the inverter OFF,   open the Main battery breaker to the SW   ...   wait 5-10 minutes,   and try again.

    Just to get the ball rolling,   Good Luck,  Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Agree, it's often the generator is just a hair out of spec, and inverter won't qualify it.  A load 100- 500w will usually let it sync, and once the inverter qualifies it, you remove the bootstrap load
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2021 #4
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    Beside already mentioned, generator rpm govenor control must be stable. Sometimes just a dirty air filter is enough to cause some fluxuation (listen for wah-wah sound variation) in rpm control.  Inverter will not lock onto a generator that has too much rpm fluxuation due to unstable govenor speed control.  Phase lock bandwidth is much tighter then absolute frequency range tolerance.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    RCinFLA said:
    Beside already mentioned, generator rpm govenor control must be stable. Sometimes just a dirty air filter is enough to cause some fluxuation (listen for wah-wah sound variation) in rpm control.  Inverter will not lock onto a generator that has too much rpm fluxuation due to unstable govenor speed control.  Phase lock bandwidth is much tighter then absolute frequency range tolerance.
    Thank you,  RC,  for your refinement.   Not just the genset AC output frequency,  but also the variation in its frequency.

    Thanks again,  Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • m151
    m151 Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭✭
    #6
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    20 years on a Trace, not that uncommon. Note to China: Copy this one!
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