Low energy livestock water tank de-icer

mike95490
mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Wife (SWMBO) wants to not have to go out daily to carry hot water for "her" sheep.   She wants an electric tank heater, which often run 400w and thermostat at 45F.
  being off grid, that's a problem.   Anyone come across any other solutions ?   I've racked my brain for 2 years, and even dog dish deicers have a 40-45F thermostat.  I'd be happier with a 35F stat, but maybe their sensors are not precise enough.
  My thought so far is a sloping 1" hose, and fill the bucket in the AM from that, instead of hauling a bucket out through the muck .
   No idea too outlandish  ( except  radioactive waste as a heater )

Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,912 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    The farms and ranches offgrid around here use a small tankless lpg and just turn-on a small pump. There are probably other things out there like an RV tankless lpg. The condensing tankless are 95% efficient but you need some 120V to run the pump and ignition. The RV route may work with 12vdc.

     Adding new electric loads in winter offgrid is not good. Winter is when we need to shed electric loads, as you know. I will ask my solar wrench buds.   Good Luck.

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    #3
    You might look through these



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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #4
    How cold does it get where you live?  If you can keep the water moving, like with a small aquarium water pump, you can keep it from freezing down into the 20s.
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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #5
    Or maybe some small scale geothermal?  If you circulated the water in a loop of pvc that goes underground and comes back up, that might keep it from freezing.  I have a tiny submersible pump that uses very little power.  Here's one that's rated at 8 watts:

    https://www.amazon.com/Submersible-Protection160GPH-Fountains-Hydroponics-Aquariums/dp/B07KG1RJFM/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=fishpond+submersible+pump&qid=1604929568&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFDQ0k0N0hTOEdLU1QmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAxNDI0ODEzQVFUWVdLSElCV0lKJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3MDQ2ODIzS0xBOUQ1NzI2UDRYJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    New_Mexico_Will said:
    How cold does it get where you live?  If you can keep the water moving, like with a small aquarium water pump, you can keep it from freezing down into the 20s.
    It was 15F this morning.   My solution is to take out 5 gallons of hot water and pour it on top of the ice.   But that gets boring after a while.

    The big problem seems to be most tank heaters have thermostats in the 40-60F range, which is way too warm for what I need off grid.  I found some plastic dog bowls with heaters, but they are only 1.5 gallons, and don't fare well when drunk dry.

    Still looking though.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #7
    Around here the ranches, who waste NOTHING, use old tractor tires for drinkers.  They lay the tire down, run the pipe/float, and fill the tire with concrete, leaving a nice bowl in the middle.  The black tire gets warm quickly in the morning sun, and the thermal mass of the warm concrete will prevent freezing through most of the night.  It doesn't usually get to 15 here, but close.  It's a cheap experiment as you can usually get old tractor tires for free.
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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #8
    Shade balls can help to some extent as well.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    New_Mexico_Will said:
    Shade balls can help to some extent as well.
    Are those floating balls like ping pong balls to reduce algae and evaporation from ponds ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Miller_Ranch
    Miller_Ranch Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭✭
    #10
    I have one of these, works great.

    https://westernranchsupply.com/product/trojan-66b-lp-gas-stock-tank-heater/
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,912 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    That is the one I thought I saw Mr Miller! Nice and simple.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #12
    mike95490 said:
    New_Mexico_Will said:
    Shade balls can help to some extent as well.
    Are those floating balls like ping pong balls to reduce algae and evaporation from ponds ?
    Yes, they use them extensively in reservoirs also.  I would think that black ones would help a bit, but admittedly probably not much.  
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  • DanS26
    DanS26 Solar Expert Posts: 269 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Mike, I know you saw this at the other site but there may be others on this site that would be interested in a completely freeze free livestock watering system that uses no electrical energy........

    https://www.horsedrinker.com/

    I've used this system for over 10 years without a single operational issue.
    23.16kW Kyocera panels; 2 Fronius 7.5kW inverters; Nyle hot water; Steffes ETS; Great Lakes RO; Generac 10kW w/ATS, TED Pro System monitoring
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Not sure where you live or the volume of water you need. I've seen water tanks that are in essence a very deep pipe in the ground with and outer pipe around it at the top with insulation between. This allows the natural ground warmth below the surface to warm the water. The warm water rises and there is a 12" watering area inside of a 16" outer pipe. If you have a serious ranch area, you are likely to know someone with a 16" power auger for their tractor, and if you can go down 6-8' it should allow a pretty good area for warming the water (considering what your frost level is, if this is Alaska... never mind...lol) You would still need to add water or have a very well entrenched water delivery system, but save on electric.

    Here's a bigger version;

    The Old Faithful - Geothermal Livestock Water Tomcat MFG

    I've seen smaller versions in pictures;

    Search "geothermal water warmer for live stock" and look at images and then move to the websites.


    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,912 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
    That was really a nice way Photowhit.  Mike is up in northern california and I would think the https://www.horsedrinker.com/  would be fine.
    So, how much water do the little sheep need?
     I have a neighbor with all kinds of critters and he has alarms to wake him up to go shoot at the coyotes and mountain lions. Never dull here !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #16
    Wow, that geothermal drinker is awesome.  I'm going to sell a lot of those for that company.  Figure 5 gallons of water per sheep per day, on average.
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