Washing Machine Lifespan on Solar

snc
snc Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3 ✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Do washing machines have a reduced lifespan on solar?
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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Assuming it's powered by a good pure sine wave inverter, there's no reason the lifespan would be reduced, modified sine wave is a different story.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • InCogKneeToe
    InCogKneeToe Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭
    #3
    Hard Water would reduce a Washer's life more than running on an Inverter.

    When my Parents purchased our Cabin, it came with a Wringer Washer with an Iron Horse Kick Start Gas engine. Life before Solar.
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  • NANOcontrol
    NANOcontrol Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Get one of these with direct drive. it is smart enough to know when voltages are wrong. Only about 500W if you set it to tap water and don't use the internal heaters.  Not saying the life expectancy of these is great.  This one is out in my garage, runs on a modified MSW converter (the washer probably prefers this), and runs off PV panels with no battery.  And the PV hot water, that is free too. This 40 gallon tank is just for the washer. I thought I would just temper it a little, maybe 75 or 80F. But, this gets hot.   Here is a chart of almost a week. Lowest was 91F after three loads and highest was 129F. I love not hearing that generator anymore.


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  • snc
    snc Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3 ✭
    #5
    Good to know that it is not impacted if run on good sine inverter. 
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  • snc
    snc Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 3 ✭
    #6
    Does it depend on the quality of the pure sine inverter?  They is a large price difference within the xantrex brand depending on model.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Probably the biggest problem is from gensets and bad grid connections. The use of a quality genset, configured properly, (or no genset) and surge protection would extend the life beyond what grid connected devices would get.

    The quality of the sine wave can be indicated by the total harmonic distortion. Schneider (xantrex) and Outback inverters designed for residential have specs of less than 5%.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    NANOcontrol said:
    Get one of these with direct drive. it is smart enough to know when voltages are wrong. Only about 500W if you set it to tap water and don't use the internal heaters.  Not saying the life expectancy of these is great.  This one is out in my garage, runs on a modified MSW converter (the washer probably prefers this), and runs off PV panels with no battery.................
    Quality Pure Sinewave inverters produce better than Grid power quality.  Gear of any type (other than arc welders) will operate and have the same lifetime as Grid power.

     NOTHING that I know of, prefers Mod Sine Wave.  Many devices will tolerate it  (mostly heating type devices, incandescent light bubs and switching power supplies)

    Motors, will run hotter and consume more power, and thus, will fail sooner - running on mod sine power.
     Some gear that uses switching power supplies and inverter drive for motors ( mini split AC, muti phase washer motors)  may operate OK with no harm.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • MichaelK
    MichaelK Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
    #9
    I can give you some real-world numbers for comparison.  While running the generator to power my wellpump, over an 8 hour period, I find that it requires 10.1A of power at 240V to pump 275 gph.  With my Schneider inverter powering the same wellpump over the same 8 hour period, it requires 9.5A at 240V to pump 300 gph.  So, under inverter power, I get 10% more water, with 5% less power consumed.  That shows you how much cleaner the inverter power is.
    System 1) 15 Renogy 300w + 4 250W Astronergy panels,  Midnight 200 CC, 8 Trojan L16 bat., Schneider XW6848 NA inverter, AC-Delco 6000w gen.
    System 2) 8 YingLi 250W panels, Midnight 200CC, three 8V Rolls batteries, Schneider Conext 4024 inverter (workshop)
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  • NANOcontrol
    NANOcontrol Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Direct drive motors in all thenew  front loaders are VFD and the AC is just rectified to produce DC for the three phase motor.  Sine waves only produce power at the peaks which is usable. Square waves produce a constant voltage for a much longer period.  .
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,617 admin
    edited August 2020 #11
    In general, that is all true... But the details matter.

    First, the Sine Wave peak voltage is ~170 volts. An MSW (modified square wave) voltage peak is ~150 volts... 120 VAC MSW (using RMS--Root Mean Square--The square of the area under the curve/waveform) looks like ~105 volts equivalent to 120 VAC sine wave. So MSW can look like a "brown out" to older computer power supplies.

    Older (cheaper) power supplies use a diode and capacitor to rectify AC into DC. Sine waves have a nice smooth wave leading up to the crest. MSW square wave has a "vertical" front that when it hits the diode/capacitor, can cause very high peak current flow vs Sine Wave (can overheat diode and capacitor). The older power supplies only use the "voltage" that is greater than the capacitor voltage (only the "peak of the sine wave") and give very poor power factor readings.

    Power Factor Corrected power supplies (more modern computers, appliances) are not bothered by the MSW "wave front" and will work just fine (MSW still looks like a lower voltage, so still possible "brown out" shutdown on MSW inverters with lower than normal output voltage). PFC supplies use the "voltage" during the entire time--No big surge at the leading edge of the MSW wave form.

    This website has a lot of information about generators and various loads (for movie production companies):

    http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html
    http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html#anchorSquare%20Wave%20Generators (specifically generators and loads section about MSW)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • NANOcontrol
    NANOcontrol Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    #12
    You don't have to Joseph Campbell to understand the power of myth. Myth has always been used to explain things people don't understand. Those who don't understand should always play it safe. I didn't get my education from sales people.
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