Why nickel for joining lithium cells?

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2020 in New Battery Technologies #1
While we are it, it does seem like nickel plated iron may be the norm. The electrical conductivity of iron and nickel are fairly similar. Nickel is 1.43 x 10 to the 7th.  Iron is 1.00 x 10 to the 7th.

Then we have "stud" copper which is 5.96 x 10 to the 7th. Why not copper plating for joining lithium cells? Or aluminum? Or lead? All more conductive than nickel and iron. 

Pretty sure spot welding works on other conductive materials. Why do they use nickel/nickel plated iron for joining lithium cells?
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,783 admin
    Nickel is relatively cheap and plates to many different metals and surfaces--And can provide a base layer for other plating materials on top.

    It is also relatively corrosion resistant.

    Here is an 80 page booklet on Nickel plating:

    https://www.nickelinstitute.org/media/2323/nph_141015.pdf

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nickel is also used in the cell of the most common battery type for electric vehicles. NMC lithium ala Tesla and LG. It also can thermal run away and there still to this day is no way to stop it.

    "There is no method yet for stopping a thermal runaway event in a BESS installation, according to Swan. "Industry can sometimes get ahead of themselves," he said."  Our friends in Arizona know all about it.

    https://www.utilitydive.com/news/lg-chem-refutes-alleged-cause-of-aps-battery-storage-facility-explosion/582740/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Issue:%202020-08-04%20Utility%20Dive%20Newsletter%20%5Bissue:28867%5D&utm_term=Utility%20Dive
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Nickel is relatively cheap and plates to many different metals and surfaces--And can provide a base layer for other plating materials on top.

    It is also relatively corrosion resistant.

    Here is an 80 page booklet on Nickel plating:

    https://www.nickelinstitute.org/media/2323/nph_141015.pdf

    -Bill
    Currently costs more than double what copper costs. Copper "appears" roughly 4 times more conductive if I read things right. 

    Perhaps almost all of it is simply nickel plated iron. That would be super cheap. Plating is cheap. Even gold plating is surprisingly cheap. They can plate down to a micron or so. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Copper oxidizes too fast, and is a poor spot weld metal. 
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    Copper oxidizes too fast, and is a poor spot weld metal. 
    Sure - then how about aluminum or lead?  Nickel is pretty darned expensive.  I suspect nickel plated iron and we know that iron is good for spot welding. Though perhaps half of the nickel strips advertise themselves as 99.6% nickel. So why are they always magnetic if pure nickel? Something seems off. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You got the part about nickel in the cell, right? NMC
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes - electric cars use it in their battery chemistry. Along with expensive cobalt. They are high performance batteries. But certainly not to be used indoors for solar. I don't think the more common Li - ion, laptop battery type, battery uses it to my knowledge anyway. But I'm pretty new to lithium battery chemistry. 

    Lithium titanate may some day be practical for solar. Some day. Handles freezing weather very well. Very safe. Very expensive. Inefficient when discharging though. Big and heavy - almost seems like a LA hybrid in its characteristics. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually NMC can be listed for indoors. As long as it complies with UL 1973 or UL 9540 it will meet NEC requirements. It still must be listed for indoor and most would not consider a garage indoor or conditioned space. There are many thousands in California by LG with Solar Edge inverters grid tied.

    Many of the LFP batteries meet this at cell level but they are not listed as a battery system.

    I can't use them for my clients because I could be sued. My clients would probably have their fire insurance denied in a claim for this reason. It is a fine thing to build a lithium battery system as long as your eyes are open to what you are doing.

    I use LFP that are listed as a battery system. About 4 makes now in the US. If they do not sell it in the store here you should beware and research the company.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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