MPPT 80-600 Schneider CC shuts off mid day

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gerhed
gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
System ran fine for almost a year and then just started shutting down one of the two charge controllers at random times. Swapped CC's on the two arrays to make sure that wasn't the issue. Same behavior on both arrays. Schneider replaced the CC with a new unit. The unit I received had taken a hard hit during shipping, which I documented and sent the photos to Schneider. I installed the unit anyway and it worked fine for about two weeks, then started doing exactly the same as the last unit. Swapped arrays, same result. I can't find an issue anywhere. No alarms. No codes. Nothing, just shuts off and shows open circuit voltage on the computer interface. I'm stumped and Schneider isn't answering my emails. What should I do? Where do I look now?
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    What is the state of charge during the time you are seeing one controller shut down?

    Also please add more info about battery, grid, offgrid, array design voltage, network, etc. The more time you spend on describing the issues, the better your answers may be.

    Since you are new here, it is helpful to know your technical ability. Who installed this please?

    For instance, it is normal for a controller to shut (Voc) down under a several conditions, right?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    two things come to mind with mid-day shutdown:
    Overpaneled (too much solar)
    Heat buildup
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited June 2020 #4
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    Shut downs appear random. Sometimes it shuts off as soon as the sun hits the panels. Sometimes, like yesterday, it goes full on til sunset, then drops off 30 minutes before the other charge controller shuts down. I'm not seeing a pattern.

    My equipment;
    2 Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters
    2 Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controllers
    Combox
    40 335w Canadian Solar panels, 13.4kW array on an Iron Ridge racking system
    24-85-27 refurbished forklift battery w/1430AH

    I am grid tied, off grid capable. The system never shut a charge controller down before. It would just dump excess power back to the grid.

    Overpaneled, yes. 13.4kW array pushing 9.8kW worth of CC's. Shouldn't that just broaden the curve?

    The system is inside my house and rarely sees temps above 75F.

    I'm a retired industrial electrician and I installed the system myself.
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #5
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    Are there any settings I should be checking? Measurements? I'll happily do any testing directed and immediately post results.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020 #6
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    Sounds reasonable.
     So you are sure that the array does not matter? Either array will cause only the replacement cc to stop selling randomly, while the other cc sells or charges?

    What are the DC battery voltages when this happens?

    6.7KW per controller is not too much solar at reasonably temps. The controller does not stop even if it is too hot, it just current limits to keep the heatsink happy.

    I think if your answers are reasonable, you are going to have to look at set-up/config again. XW+ can only sell 6KW x 2 so I am thinking you need to make sure this is not an issue.  Maybe you did not notice it before? Make sure the master slave config has not changed? Look at Adv features and make sure they are all off. Also check if the unit is in AC couple enable. Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #7
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    First of all let me thank you for taking the time to help me. Thank you.

    Yes, I'm sure. I've run this CC on both arrays, same result.

    I made sure Advanced features were turned off.

    It's not overheating.

    Can you be more specific about set-up/config? Are you suggesting complete reset?

    AC coupled? Where is this setting?

    This is what it did today.


    And the battery
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Your harvest is dropping when you go to float. Do you have any days where this is intermittent. Just from the above screens it looks like configuration is not right.

    That said if you have history earlier than the 7 day limit of combox, can you show them? i.e. saved on an SD?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    AC coupling looks like it is not enabled from your screens. Sometimes a grid glitch or nearby lightning can cause s setting to be corrupted. 
    You have surge protection on DC and AC circuits for the house right?

    Since it is late there? Where is there? Since it is late, I would do a DC reset of the system. Save all your settings somewhere first.

    Go into AC bypass with low loads or shut off main panel, Shut down solar in, mppt breakers, and DC 250 amp breakers. Let it sit for sometime. This gives the system time to discharge to below 2vdc.

    Before you do that, you may want to just sleep on it and send the above answers. Got to run.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited June 2020 #10
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    All I have are the lightening arrestors on the solar array. Do you have any suggestions for what I should install to help prevent future issues like this?

    I'm feeling like you are correct about the settings getting weird. Makes the most sense to me. Big props to Schneider for biting the bullet and just replacing the unit. Surprised they went to such lengths right off the bat. 

    Does a long term shutdown allow the system to "forget" some things? Start a new baseline? That sounds like a good starting point after backing up all my settings. Is this what you are suggesting? I can do that at anytime. What is "some time"? Rough estimate or where to test to ensure I'm below the 2vdc.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,457 admin
    #11
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    Regarding surge suppressors, adding one to the AC output of your inverter/main breaker panel would be useful too (lightning has been known to take out more AC inverter output sections vs other solar hardware):

    https://www.solar-electric.com/search/?q=midnite+surge+suppressor

    If you are interested in the details--Midnite has a lot of information on the development and testing of their units:

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/documents.php?productCat_ID=23&productCatName=Surge%20Protection%20Devices&model=MNSPD-115&product_ID=283&act=info

    SPD (Surge Protection Devices)
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #12
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    Thanks Bill
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020 #13
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    Yes Thanks Bill  ;)  Keeping your hands well washed up there  ;);)

    Yea send me the damaged one, I will recycle it for you :) You can email me below and I will tell you where to ship it :open_mouth:

    A DC reset will save all settings, however, if something has been changed, for whatever reason, it will not correct that. Combox will keep your data.

    You can tell Schneider how you feel here
    https://solar.schneider-electric.com/feedback/

    One of the reasons your combox was replaced by gateway is Schneider can look at your configuration remotely. Combox is on the discontinued product list BTW.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #14
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    Schneider got back with me.

    I bought a Conext Gateway. It'll be here in a couple days. I'mma start from scratch when it gets here. Actually looking forward to it. I'll save all my basic info and settings, but I'll go to each and every one to verify. Need to re-familiarize myself with the equipment again anyway. Time to read up again.

    The other CC went back to Schneider. They requested I return it.
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #15
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    Bought a surge protector too. I'll install it as soon as it gets here.
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #16
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    OK guys, here's what happened. I ordered this
    https://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1304_258_261&products_id=189600

    and they sent me this
    https://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1304_258_261&products_id=4832

    Do I keep this instead? Sounds like it might be the same thing. 

    Help
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020 #17
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    Not the same thing.  
     The gateway can perform firmware updates, program the XW gear,  and it also does logging and recording

    The Implanter ( Configuration Tool ) tool, only configures and is not intended for monitoring at all, just firmware updates and configuration. it's also more suited to recovering a "Bricked" device from a failed firmware update, from what I understand.

    I have not used either, the above is based on information gleaned over the years.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #18
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    Thanks Mike. I wasn't aware the gateway did so much more. From reading on the site I was under the impression that they both did basically the same thing, but the configuration tool was just more tech oriented. I'll send it back then.
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #19
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    Ok, so I got the gateway. I shut the system down at about 7pm last night. DC bus is still showing 18v after 13-1/2 hours down. How long does it usually take to get the bus down below 2v?
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #20
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    Never seen this take more than 20 seconds. Schneider says wait up to 30 minutes.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited June 2020 #21
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    Hmm. Everything is shut down. All disconnects are open. Have been for many hours. Still showing ~18vdc. It's been long enough. I'm bringing the system back up with the gateway. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    #22
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    Ok, so the system is up and running and having the same issue. But wait! There's more! I can't get it to accept the urn and serial number combination. I'm assuming after reading this thread:
    https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/355360/conext-gateway-install-urn-serial-number-not-matching

    that the cloud services aren't working. What terms of service agreement is he talking about in this post?
    I have accepted everything that came across the screen and even went looking for agreements to accept, yet my cloud services still show red. What am I missing?
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  • gerhed
    gerhed Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited June 2020 #23
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    Yeah, I don't get it and I'm guessing nobody has any more advice. The Gateway has accepted certificates, its on my network, I can open it, but it still says its an unsecured site. Insight refuses to communicate with it. I'm about at my wits end here. Equipment meant for the residential sector shouldn't be this difficult for the end user to operate and tune. 

    Thanks for the help.
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  • Michael57
    Michael57 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭✭
    #24
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    The certificate issue should not affect the cloud, it's just an inconvenience. That's just an issue between your browser (not recognizing the certificate) and the gateway.  Just skip passed the security warning on your browser, it's not really feasible that someone is doing a "man in the middle attack" between your browser and gateway on your own network, so you will be fine.  

    For the record, I installed a gateway about a month ago and mine also had issues where it would lock up and not respond.  Though when it wasn't locked up, it seemed to work fine.  I had to send mine back and I'm getting my replacement today.

    I don't think Insight communicates directly with the gateway, rather the gateway sends data to the cloud and Insight reads the data from there.  So you will want to make sure you have the green light on the cloud config which indicates the gateway is communicating with the cloud.  Also, I have noticed that SE's cloud services is unavailable (or very slow) at times too, which can affect Insight.  

    Off Grid Weekend Cabin: 4 300W Sun Module SW 300 Array, Conext MPPT 60 150, Conext XW+ 6848 Inverter, 48 Volt 435AH Trojan FLA Battery Bank, Conext AGS, SCP, and Gateway.
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