XW 6848 PRO sell mode activation

kshughes
kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
edited April 2020 in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Hi folks, I've got a newly installed 5.2kw PV system. Running with schneider xw 6848 inverter.  Grid support and Sell to grid modes activated. With battery backup.

During the day, the sell to grid mode looks to be activating around 54V and then runs until the system gets down to 49.5V. After that the system goes back to AC Pasthru mode, with no inversion.  When the voltage gets back up to 54V, the sell to grid initiates again. Then back to AC pass thru for a while. 

Here is a link to a video to show how it is happening: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Amc4dMjuvXhEoGPNA

My questions are from an uninformed position:

1) Is the process I am describing above an efficient one?  Seems like it would be better to not use the pass thru mode and use the PV to power the load while not selling.

2) If the current operation isn't ideal, how could it be modified?

Some info that might be pertinent:
GRID SUPP VOLTS is set to 65V
LOW BATT CUT OUT is set to 47V

Thanks for any advice.
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Comments

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    What does the installer say? The more info you give the better the response will be. Where, when , why, who, &  general info like training/ experience
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited April 2020 #3
    Hi Dave, Thanks for your message. The installer doesn't say much given the local shutdown and strict curfew here in Puerto Rico during the pandemic.

    More details:

    GSV = 65V
    LBCO = 47V
    HBCO = 65V
    RECHARGE VOLTS = 47.5V

    It seems to me (maybe wrong) that the sell mode is using energy from batteries, causing the voltage to drop and then get close to LBCO which kicks off the inverter.  I'd prefer that the sell mode does not tap battery reservoir. Maybe it's the battery voltage config?

    Again here is a link to show the SCP with sell activated: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Amc4dMjuvXhEoGPNA

    Is there something I'm missing? The "enhanced grid support" details say this setup is to use solar panel energy as priority.   For now, I switched sell mode off and have (enhanced) grid support running. That seems to be working fine but eventually I'd like to be able to sell to the grid to build a credit.

    Does anyone have documentation on the parameters that initiate sell mode?

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Without the Gateway to easily list the configuration you are going to have to look at the the default settings, all of them, and then list what the installer changed. If you can list the changed ones here, it might be helpful to you. I say might, as setting up an xw or a radian for grid-tie is an advanced skill and requires training or lots of time in the manual. With the Gateway you could get warranty help from Schneider or pay someone like me to configure your system. Someone might even do it for free if they had Gateway...... Below is a manual link. Good Luck!

    https://41j5tc3akbrn3uezx5av0jj1bgm-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Conext-XW-Pro-NA-Addendum_Multi-Unit-AC-Output-Voltage-Configuration-and-Calibration-990-91314.pdf
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    For others here, PR is known for horrendous grid power issues right now and for quite some time BTW.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    Hi Dave thanks. I have poured over the manual and other supporting docs for a few days now but like you said I'm not a pro and not foolish enough to mess with shit I don't fully understand.

    I have a gateway. I can access it via the wifi network it generates but not via insight2 or app patforms yet.

    Will update when gateway fully functional.
  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    And oh yes, AEE leaves very much across the board to be desired. The main impetus to invest in solar for us.
  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I think my original issue may be the one described here in the troubleshooting of the manual.

    I still don't have the meter to credit me for selling so I am still not using the sell mode.  Once the new meter is in place, I'll adjust the max sell amps to see if the issue resolves.

    Oh and I got the gateway configured but it's just on the limit of my router range so I'll set up a signal extender to get it fully connected to the cloud.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #9
    My clients down in PR were either too high, too low, or it was not stable enough to avoid all of the anti islanding faults and warnings. You need to measure voltage before they show up in order to inform them. They may not be able to help you but, they should be told.

    If you are on the limit of the router range, it makes me think the inverter is at the limit of being too far to get decent voltage readings for sell.
    You can go 300 feet or so to the gateway hardwired or maybe use a signal extender for gateway wifi. 

    I would get the installer to help with above. He should at least help with the readings and he needs to step up. No excuses about covid19 as this can all be done safely. He is in the power sector/essential services, which is free to do business. I used the screenshot below to get into Yosemite national park last week for a client.



    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    Thanks Dave for your message. Yeah we'll get them out here at some point. I'd prefer to have the re-visit only after I get the new meter installed by the AEE folks.

    I've seen F28 and F39 events in the past couple of days. That speaks to your mention of the stability of the grid feed. They're forecasting rolling brownouts and blackouts this summer given all the power generation capacity lost from poor upkeep and this year's moderate earthquake.

    The inverter is about 10 feet (maybe 20-ish feet via conduit) from the house breaker panel.  My wifi router just happens to be away from this location. Even on laptop or phone shows low signal strength at the gateway. We'll see what happens with the wifi extender when it arrives. I'd like to avoid draping an ethernet line across the roof and drilling through concrete block for now.
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    I just commissioned the XW Pro model where I had an xw4548 for 9 years. I have the Grid Support and Sell Enabled. But I now have a minute long cycle that occurs all day long. mppt60 ramps up batt voltage. At about 53v Pro goes into sell mode but it doesnt self regulate. The Pro will suck the batteries down to about 50.5v and then totally stop selling to grid. Then when voltage recovers from mppt it cycles all over again. My old 4548 would self-regulate and sell at about 93% of the power the mppt showed and was stable like flint. Anyone here encountering this ?
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    After viewing the google video ... My post at #11 is the same exact thing #1 posted about. I did force factory resets on both devices and it continues. SCHNEIDER solve this !!
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020 #13
    Probably configuration. The settings have changed with a new inverter. You would have to list them all unless you have the gateway. Who did you buy it from? There are now over a thousand I was told recently running fine. I have 4 on my insight2 that are selling to the grid just fine. The one easy to check for is that none of the advanced features are enabled. Good Luck!

    In post #1 the OP had problems with utility power not being near spec. If post #12 is exactly the same thing, he needs to solve the power issue.
     XWP will faithfully stop selling and use battery over and over with bad utility power. As I have noted, I have  users I monitor on CI2 and they have not had any issues.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    Hello tampasolar,  SOLVED!

    It was not a config issue. Schneider was no help. The installer was no help. It was not an issue with the utility power. The constant cutting out was bad for the batteries (resulted in more than needed discharge) and was causing my harvest to be about half of what it is now. 

    I found a guy local who was having the same exact issue as me (so we are at least 3 total, probably many more).  We tried all sorts of bull crap trial and error.  But the thing that did the trick was to update the xw pro inverter firmware to the California version.  I updated via gateway. 

    Just make sure that if you do the firmware update, follow closely the guidance given in the Schneider youtube videos (some folks panic during the update) AND make sure you note ALL your inverter settings because they will be reset with the firmware update.

    Below is what I said to Schneider in an email. It is in Spanish but you can easily do Google translator. I have been about a month now with everything running at 100%.  Good luck!

    Lo que pasa es que yo tenia el firmware de 1.00 bn 20 en el inversor XW Pro. 

    Actualicé el firmware a la v. 1.03 y puse la misma configuración de todo que había antes con la v. 1.00 y ahora todo funciona bien nítido.  Creo que la v. 1.00 no me sirve para sell mode.  Tengo un compañero que le pasó exactamente lo mismo.  Bregamos la gestión juntos.  Ahora con el firmware actualizado, todo funciona como se debe para ambos.

    Llevo una semana ahora despues del update y nunca falla como estaba pasando anteriormente.

  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭


    To demonstrate the difference I mentioned in the above post, you can see I made the upgrade on 18-jun.  Before that, I was really only harvesting what I pulled via load, with not much extra.  After that and to the present, I have been very pleased.
  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    One additional thing to share: here is a video from today of the inverter and SCP. A cloud rolled in just as I showed the SCP but you get the idea. No more kicking off to AC Pass through.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/7c8RLVpaPTtawPcz7
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    From time to time I force the 6848 to bulk charge, like as a storm is rolling in.  Want the batteries topped off.  As soon as the bulk function reaches its desired voltage and stops, the 6848 immediately turns around and sheds the battery top off  !!!  It goes into sell for maybe 30 seconds, pulling the battery voltage back down.  How do I stop this such performance.  This is happening AT NIGHT.  No solar at all and it jumps into sell mode.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    I used the ComBox for many years and now being forced to go to the gateway, why the hell can't I configure the gateway disconnect time.  I could leave the ComBox and browser screen on for hours to nicely monitor performance.  This gateway disconnects in a matter of minutes, not hours.  CMON Schneider.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    Do users here that have a gateway, find there is a hang/delay of 20 seconds or more when you click on Config.  I use firefox and even Chromium hangs such that the browser asks me if I want to 'wait' or 'kill' the page.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    It takes my gateway 3 seconds to go from XW device menu to the configuration menu using chrome. Never had any issues.

    Make sure your firmware is up to date. This is critical when you are grid-tied. Every time you go to AC passthru (especially under load)
    you lose life on that relay, and get closer to the dreaded "welded contact" warning. This is why you never buy a used XW from someone who used it for grid tie. The exception would be someone who had the knowledge to correctly set-up XW. Especially the installers!

    kshughes   It was your configuration BTW. Having the correct firmware is part of configuration. Good Luck in the mean season!



    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    Frustrated in Florida -- again !!  The last thing one needs when the grid goes down is a damn inverter that acts like a princess and wont qualify a generator input.  FIX THIS Schneider.  Never had a 4548 issue with generator input, 6848 be damned.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    There are 8 that I know very well that work just fine offgrid. I only use inverter based gensets like Honda. It is too bad you do not have the settings and exact genset you used with your 4548. That would probably cure your problem. 

    It also sounds to me that if your gateway is that slow, there is a network issue also.  Start a support ticket, it might be something simple that you are missing. If you missed the 60 amp default pass thru setting, you may have missed something else.

    https://solar.schneider-electric.com/netsuite/
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    It is the same genset.  And it was simply the default settings with that breaker setting reduced to 15 ish amps.  Default whether 4548 or 6848.  There is more to this that I am willing to bet is in the 6848 newer code.  Let the inverter report to us what it doesn't like.  There is no reason in creation that Schneider has to hide this criteria.  Whatever is failing to qualify within the 6848 NEEDS TO BE REPORTED to the users and installers.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    I could have bought a welders power supply to charge my batteries.  Do I really need a temperamental charger disguised as an inverter BLOCKING me from charging my batteries ?  Old school please, allow almost any raw power to charge batteries without being judgemental.

    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    The sell to grid changes made to the 6848 are crap too.  I miss my 4548.  There should never be a time when the 6848 feeds more power into the grid THAN THE CHARGE CONTROLLER is delivering.  And sell to grid should never occur AT NIGHT.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    In case anyone doubts me, I connected the grid to AC2 (its still doing the sell on AC1).  This 6848 won't qualify the grid on AC2, still says
    AC2 Voltage 241.9 V AC2 L1 Voltage 120.7 V AC2 L2 Voltage 121.2 V AC2 Frequency 60 Hz AC2 Power 0 W AC2 L1 Current 0 A AC2 L2 Current 0 A AC2 Voltage Qualified Qualifying AC2 Frequency Qualified Qualifying

    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    Just did a factory reset on the 6848.  Still won't qualify the AC2 input, even with both coming from the grid.  I guess I need to paste my last ten posts directly to Mike at s/e.

    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • tampasolar
    tampasolar Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭
    Two hours later .. sick and tired of seeing a constant 500 watts of pv generation and the 6848 must stop selling, wait and then ramp all the way from 0 watts to 3 kw, then stop.  This is wrecking havoc on my batteries.  All the time the voltage goes from 53.1 down to 51.9
    The 4548 was a beaut .. it simply sold to grid the same power level coming in from the charge controller.  This is the 1.03 firmware.
    hybrid: xw6848 pro with two mppt60, 6 kw pv
    17 cell 280ah LiFePO4 storage  14 kw
    gridtie: sunny boy sma 2x 5k
    gridtie: fronius ag5100 5k
    Gateway / Insight Local
    xw4548 backup
  • kshughes
    kshughes Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭
    Well shoot. I have the "enhanced grid support" config. After the 1.03 upgrade, everything went very well, didn't enter the cycling even once. Perhaps wait till morning to see what happens in sell mode. If it's still not complying, until you get it straightened out, I suggest putting max sell amps to 0. That way you don't constantly enter the cycling you are dealing with. For me, that strategy allowed me to use PV for what I needed (more load resulted in more instantaneous PV harvest). But unfortunately you sell nothing. Good luck.
  • cheguy
    cheguy Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2
    hola soy Jose puedes darme una llamada al 787-366-9650 para hacerte unas preguntas sobre el xw6848 hybrid tengo problemas y creo que es configuracion gracias
  • mkimid
    mkimid Registered Users Posts: 3
    simply, that is a problem of XW 6848, it should soft start when trigger sell mode. it just dump out huge power and reduce the selling amount by time. 
    if battery voltage is going under grid support voltage - 1.0v, it will turn back to pass thru. 
    just adjust sell current to reduce the problem, just set the slightly higher sell power via your mppt charger output. 
    if 5.2kW solar power, and mppt output is 4.8kW, and then, 4.8kW/240V = 20A 
    set selling current as 20A, those problem will happen 1-2 times early morning, but, will gone