CC not coming online

Chris11 · April 2020

My thoughts were that once I plug the Prius in and it starts to suck lectrics that the CC in sleep mode from overnight would awaken. Nope. Yesterday I stood there for maybe 2 minutes and it never awoke. So I hit force bulk. All was well except after some time but before the car was finished it went into Absorb. That didn't seem to be a problem so I left it.

Today I waited 5 minutes after plugging in the car, thinking it may take more time for the CC to wake up. Nope. Finally I again hit force bulk since my old bats were being depleted.

Question: Is there something wrong with my Flex 80 that it doesn't wake up once the bats are being depleted?

BB. · April 2020

You need to look at the battery bank voltage... (using 12 volts as a "number")... For example, your bank goes from 12.x to 14.75 volts (bulk to absorb charging), then after a few hours drops to 13.6 volts. And holds 13.6 until the sun sets and/or your loads exceed the solar power.

More or less, if your battery bank is in "float" (13.6 at 12 volts or 54.4 volt), and you hit it with a load, as long as the battery bus voltage does not drop below ~12.7 volts or so, the battery stays charged and the energy out from the solar array should match the energy into the Prius. And all is OK.

If however, you plug in a 2 kWatt load, and the controller stays at zero Watts output, and the battery bus voltage falls below ~12.7 volts, then there is probably a problem.

I don't have any off grid chargers... So what do you mean by "wakes up"? Is the FM 80 outputting zero amps with a major DC Buss load, while the sun is up and the panel should be able to harvest energy?

-Bill

Chris11 · April 2020

Hi Bill,

Here's what I think. The CC goes to sleep at night although I'm very seldom there at night to see what it actually says. When I get there in the morning it's in Float ( sometimes it says Charged, not Float.) In the past with my smaller array it would automatically start to charge the bats to recharge what we had used the night before. It's always done that...automatically started I mean. Now since I enlarged the array as I said it won't auto start from either Float or Charged once I plug the car in. The car uses 8 amps at 115 volts AC so I would think the CC would sense that the bats are being depleted and should start. Oh, once I hit the force bulk button it starts to work. I'm sure it says waking, but not positive....lol... then says tracking and finally mppt bulk. I actually saw 80 amps this morning then it settled down to 60 odd amps.

I do wonder if I'm not allowing enough time for the CC to sense that the bats are being used. I don't like using force bulk .... seems like it should be doing it automatically.

BB. · April 2020

Some controller had to be below "12.5" volts for a few minutes before the controller would kick in the Bulk/Absorb/Float cycle. Otherwise, the controller would just go to 13.6 volt "float" and call it a day (the issue of actually cycling the battery bank rather than going Bulk/Absorb/Float when the the bank is not significantly discharged (for longer battery life?).

And there was an issue with much older Outback controllers (FX 60 or something), where they would not come out of sleep and they needed a software update (as I recall, decade ago?).

-Bill

Chris11 · April 2020

Thanks. Tomorrow I'll measure the voltage on the bank before I do anything else. And I'll harness the ponies with the patience rig .... to see if the CC will come on by itself.

mcgivor · April 2020

Chris11 said:

Hi Bill,
Here's what I think. The CC goes to sleep at night although I'm very seldom there at night to see what it actually says. When I get there in the morning it's in Float ( sometimes it says Charged, not Float.) In the past with my smaller array it would automatically start to charge the bats to recharge what we had used the night before. It's always done that...automatically started I mean. Now since I enlarged the array as I said it won't auto start from either Float or Charged once I plug the car in. The car uses 8 amps at 115 volts AC so I would think the CC would sense that the bats are being depleted and should start. Oh, once I hit the force bulk button it starts to work. I'm sure it says waking, but not positive....lol... then says tracking and finally mppt bulk. I actually saw 80 amps this morning then it settled down to 60 odd amps.

I do wonder if I'm not allowing enough time for the CC to sense that the bats are being used. I don't like using force bulk .... seems like it should be doing it automatically.

The controller will go to sleep when the PV voltage is equal or lower than the battery voltage, in the morning the reverse should occur, as soon as the PV voltage is above battery voltage current should flow.

When the car charger is plugged in with the batteries in float and the array can provide enough current for the charger, along with any other loads, the controller should support them ail without nesesarally charging the batteries but rather maintaining a small float current. There may be an error in the settings that is preventing this, as the aforementioned is how most controllers behave, I'm not an Outback user so no direct experience with them but would expect them to be the same. The Outback FAQ Web page may provide further information
http://www.outbackpower.com/resources-mobile/technical-support/faq

Chris11 · April 2020

I agree McGiver, but the CC isn't awakening in order to provide any lectrics. I read the manual again today ,,,, and couldn't find anything keeping in mind I ain't as smart as I used to be.

Bill, I did the battery measure this morning. Here's the report....lol.

When I got there I didn't do anything but take the voltage across the 4 bats. 12.91. Oops I lied. I also measured each bat. 6.23, 6.22, 6,22 and 6.23.

The CC was displaying "Charged." I looked that up in the manual and it said Charged appears when there's another source of charge going into the CC other the P.V. Well, there's not so I don't understand that.

Then I plugged in my Prius and turned on the inverter.

I measured the charge going into the inverter with a clamp on meter. 62 to 63 amps.

1 minute later the battery bank measured 23 volts exactly.

3 minutes later the battery bank measured 22.87 volts.

5 minutes later the battery bank measured 22.75 volts.

I got worried so I then forced bulk and started to take pics.

1st one is what it was sitting at after the night.

2nd one is once I had hit force bulk

3rd one is the tracking

4th one is after tracking was finished

5th one is a nice solid 60 amps

Last one is just a good one....lol....80 amps and over 2000 watts from a 2000 watt system. Clouds had cooled the panels I think then the sun came out again.

Any other suggestions?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/48/m8j2uubyn1t5.jpg

mcgivor · April 2020

That is strange, the display says charged with a voltage of 22.6V, if the panels were in full sun, which the input voltage would suggest, then it should be in bulk mode.

When you pressed forced bulk it tracked, which is normal, then began charging, this should have occurred automatically if the sun was up, there must be something wrong with the settings or the controller is malfunctioning.

By the way what battery capacity and chemistry do you have? Having a signature, which can be created in your personal settings helps others to understand what you're dealing with without asking such questions, just a thought.

BB. · April 2020

Looks like everything is working correctly, other than the charge controller itself. Time to try tech support?

Beyond my experience.

Only other thing, turn off the array (or at night), turn of the Vbatt to the controller for a few minutes, then power back on Vbatt to boot, then Varray. The old reboot and see if it fixes anything.

-Bill

Chris11 · April 2020

McGivor It's certainly possible that there's something wrong in the settings....except I've never changed them since I set them 5 or 6 years ago and it's always worked correctly as far as I know. I did bring home the quick set up sheet that has the tech phone number on it. Perhaps a phone call to them is in order.

Bill ... I'll try that tomorrow since I have to reroute some wires. And if Nada, then a phone call to Outback.

BB. · April 2020

Fingers crossed.

Just remember to do the power cycling in the order listed... Most charge controllers get their power from the Vbatt terminal (and many figure out if 12/24/48 volt based bus) and to boot in a known/properly configured state.. If they are hit with Vpanel power first (or last), they can boot in a strange state or even be damaged.

Best wishes,
-Bill

Estragon · April 2020

Also, as a short term fix if rebooting in the right order doesn't help, you might want to check for a "rebulk" or similar voltage setting. The default may be fairly low so setting it to say 24v might help.

Chris11 · April 2020

This morning after plugging in my Prius I waited 6 and 1/2 minutes for the CC to start .... just in case it takes time for the CC to recognize the bat depletion.. No change so I hit force bulk again and all was well.

Bill ... I waited to finish charging the car since clouds were expected in the afternoon and it happened right on time but the charge was finished. I turned all off, prettied up some wiring then restarted for sure in the correct order. We'll see tomorrow what happens.

Estragon ... I read your suggestion on my phone on the property so I did what you said. We'll see tomorrow.... and if all is well (that the CC starts normally) we'll arrange fisty cuffs between you and Bill to see who was right ... lol.

Here's what is confusing to me.... I didn't change any settings but all I changed was instead of 3 strings of 4 100 watt panels I now have 4 strings of 5 100 watt panels, plus I put in a different combiner, changed the wiring from CC to bat bank to 2 gauge hot side and 4 gauge neg side. No CC settings were changed in the CC except today when I changed the rebulk from 24.4 to 24 as Estragon suggested

. I phoned Outback this morning ... there's a lost cause. Just a recorded voice suggesting I look at some videos, which I did. I don't like support lines that aren't manned by a human but I generously assume they're short staffed because of the virus.

I suspect it has to do with the "Charged" word on the display instead of the "Floating" word. In the manual it says that the word Charged is used if an external source ( generator perhaps? ) is being used in conjunction with the PV. If an external source is being used the CC stops charging because it's not needed. It will also displays the word when the cycle is transitioning from ABSORBING (upper target voltage ) to FLOATING (lower voltage ) I copied that from the manual.

Now for the happy part. We dressed my wife in gloves, expensive gas mask, old clothes, goggles and sent her into a motorhome we have on the property, to vacuum up the mouse poop . ( Hanta virus is a backup if we don't get the Corona virus. ) She came out alive and well ... I cheered her return with another bottle of Corona beer. Damn, I'm such a supportive husband.

Oh, and before you yell at me, the vacuum was on the outside of the motorhome connected by a long suction hose.

BB. · April 2020

There are other things that can be tried... Assuming you have written down all of the settings, is there a "factory defaults" setting? Sometimes corruption can sneak into configuration databases.

-Bill

mcgivor · April 2020

Read the manual and think I "maybe" have found the reason the controller won't wake up on it own

@Chris11 said previously

Here's what is confusing to me.... I didn't change any settings but all I changed was instead of 3 strings of 4 100 watt panels I now have 4 strings of 5 100 watt panels, plus I put in a different combiner, changed the wiring from CC to bat bank to 2 gauge hot side and 4 gauge neg side. No CC settings were changed in the CC except today when I changed the rebulk from 24.4 to 24 as Estragon suggested

Since there were changes made to the array there many be confusing values the controller can't deal with, which, as Bill has suggested, may require a return to default settings, below is from page 56 of the manual.

This procedure is recommended any time the controller is relocated or the

system is substantially revised. The settings can also be reset to the

defaults by performing a reboot (see page 60)

Chris11 · April 2020

I love it Bill. I've seen the choice "factory defaults" as I flipped through the menus....never even though of trying it. If tomorrow's changes don't work I'll do it.

Chris11 · April 2020

Ah, great McGivor. I also read the manual a bazillion times but read and reread the pages around "Charged"....I admit I didn't get as far as you did on Page 60. As I said tomorrow we'll see if the other changes did anything, if not I'll do the default thingy.

Thanks to all. Chris

Chris11 · April 2020

Home from the wars.

First ... it's working properly. I got there this morning and the display read " Float " which is what we needed. I plugged in the car, turned on the inverter and everything in the CC reacted properly. After wakeup and tracking it looked great. And I never touched anything. it confused me at first since even though the readings were acting properly it stayed in Float even though the array was putting out lots of juju to charge the car.. I resisted the urge to force bulk so simply watched it. It then went to Mppt Float which means the CC noticed that the bats were being depleted slightly so increased the float current to make up for it. Then it went back to Float. Then back to Mppt Float. This occurred a few times till it went to Mppt Bulk by itself. And all went well till the car was fully charged. At the end of the car charge the display read "Charged" but again I resisted touching it, wanting so badly to force Float. 10 minutes later it changed to Float where it stayed until we left.

I'd like to thank you guys .... you're great at helping. And to add, I've noticed even when buttheads ask for your help then show their true butthead colors you retain your gentlemanly ways. I've always been impressed with that.

As a reward for your helping me I've attached a picture of my hot wife in her bikini. Enjoy.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/editor/c0/1rlbiaqf9xcj.jpg

mike95490 · April 2020

For goodness sake, get her out of that tyvek suit, it's hot as the dickens in them. ( Oh, I see now: Hot wife )

CC not coming online

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