Magnum mms 1012 charging issue

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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I used to sell a lot of wringer washers, and used quite a few as well.  There was an old one in the cabin when we bought it, and I kinda wish we had kept it.  The admiral said no though, so out it went.

    Mostly, electronics either do or don't.  A failed board usually just doesn't do what it's supposed to.  That said, I have an old bridged router that appears to have developed the electronic version of a degenerative brain disease.  It reverted to default values for a reflashed OS for no apparent reason.  Hopefully just a sort of brain fart.  Having reprogrammed it, it seems to be remembering stuff, for now.

    Anyway, what I don't get is:
    2 x 1000w hondas paralleled didn't work.
    1 x 2000w honda didn't work 
    1 x 1000w honda did work
    1 x random 3500w or whatever contractor generator did work.
    1 x 2000w honda worked for a while after messing about with wiring, but apparently didn't after a motor load was added.

    I'm leaning toward some sort of wiring problem, but at a bit of a loss as to where to start diagnosing it.

    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    It can’t get any simpler IMHO.  The wire from the genny is a piece of 10/2 NM with ground, with a NEMA 15 amp plug on the end.  It comes through a drilled hole in my “powerhouse” wall, stapled to the wall for 10’, then into the Magnum.  The output from the Magnum is more 10/2 to a three pole switch (to run from other fixed gennies), then on to a main fuse box, distributed to the various buildings with 10/2 fuel wire.  I would be hard pressed to figure it is a problem on the output side of the Magnum as everything else works fine, and, as I said, I checked the input wiring today.  (The NEMA plug plugs into the genny output receptacles).  I’m tempted to take the 1000i open and see if there is some glaring issue at the receptacle, but beyond that I don’t think I can do much inside the genny.

    Tony
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Another day, another twist.  Took the 2000i apart this afternoon, and could find nothing obviously amiss.  It still doesn’t charge on the inverter even though it says it is.  The remote recognizes the voltage, says “float charging 13.6 v 18 amps.  So the remote and the inverter are communicating with one another and with the battery.

    The twist however, is that when I plug the 1000i it starts to charge, “float charge 13.6 v 18 amps”, but the Victron (confirmed with my clamp on) shows it is only charging at 4.3 amps.. which is in the range of what it ought to be for float.  The batteries are in float from the PV this late in the afternoon.  

    Now I’m thoroughly befuddled.  Do I have a remote issue, an inverter issue, a generator issue or D:All of the above?  

    And yes, I did try resetting the inverter with the remote unplugged, which should restore the inverter to the default config.  Once again, while the rope gets longer, I’m still swinging from the end of it!

    Tony
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some (more) pure speculation...
    I'm guessing the inverter may be controlling and reporting DC charging current by pulsing current, and basing control feedback and reporting on the duty cycle.  If voltage drops below setpoint, increase duty cycle.  Voltage rises, decrease duty cycle.  If control logic calls for a higher duty cycle, it may assume it actually happens.  If so, and if for some reason the duty cycle actually didn't increase, would it report and behave as if it did (calling for a higher duty cycle up to whatever high limit)?

    This wouldn't really explain why the 1000i works, but 2 x 1000i and 2000i don't though.  I assume no changes in settings between genny inputs?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    I’ve changed all the settings all the time, from shore amps to charge time to charge rate, from 0% to 100% all to no avail.  Resetting the inverter should restore it to default if the remote is unplugged.  I’m going to drag the 2000i down the lake tomorrow to my clients camp and see if it will power their 2024 Magnum, and then I will bring their remote home to see if it will “fix” mine.  The clients camp is shut for the season and I’m the guy who takes care of it all, so I have crate blanc to do what ever I like.

    Once again, I called Magnum support, and after being on hold for an hour, I finally gave up and left them a voice mail that supposedly keeps you in the quay.  Never worked before, and now 3 hours later not working again.  Have to say, I am not impressed with Magnum since they have been bought by Sensata.  At least when you call Midnight you get someone, and that someone actually knows something!

    Tony
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When trying to debug a problem, I try to change one variable at a time, to the extent possible.  It's not always possible, but it  makes the problem simpler, at least to me.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    I’m with you there...Asking yourself the question “what has changed” is often a good starting point.  T
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    So one more update...little progress.  I took the 1000i down and wired it into a 2024 Magnum on another site, and it performed perfectly.  Then I brought home another remote, plugged in the remote, changed the config etc, and started the genny.  Once again...no charge!  Plugging in the 1000i and it charges like it should. 

    The only other piece of info which may or may not be relevant, is there seems to be about a 3 amp discrepancy between what the remote charge current displays as opposed to the Victron, confirmed with a clamp on meter.  Also, when I run a couple 8 amp motor load on the inverter (it runs fine, just can’t run it long.  The Magnum meter says it is drawing ~88 amps, while the Victron (and a kill-a- watt) show something  over 50amps.  

    My only solution (that I can think of) left is to drag both the genny, and the inverter to town, but I have limited hope that anyone can fix what ever may be wrong!

    Tony
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2019 #40
    So once again the mystery deepens.  On a whim tonight, I walked by my generator shed, and thought I would see if magically things had “fixed” themselves.  Started the genny, shows charging at 30 amps/12/3 volts (don’t know why my battery is that low, will have to investigate). I messed around with all the settings with the remote, and magically, it actually started to charge.  I was messing with the AC volt drop out and the absorb charge time...I think.  

    So I let it go for 15 minutes, and then started my motor load.  Right away, it stopped charging.  Turning off the motor load, shutting off the AC in and refiring  the charger...it wouldn’t charge again!  No amount of messing with the settings would bring it back.  Damn!

    Tony
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Motor loads are often low Power Factor, and that could be upsetting the gear somehow..  just guessing, seeing what sticks to the wall.
    Motor could have hot leakage to ground, some GFC could be seeing that too.....
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    How would that explain that it won’t return to charging when I remove the motor load? Or why does it work with the smaller genny?  (Not being argumentative...just trying to figure it out!). Tony
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    I may have found a bit of a clue.  RTFM, reading the manual, the specs for the inverter require an input voltage of 120VAC +- 5%.  5% of 120 is 6 volts.  My genny is putting out 127 vac!  I wouldn’t thing the tolerances are so tight, but maybe?   Now the question is how do you drop the voltage slightly on a Honda Eu2000i genny?  I’ve tried loading it, and it still puts out 127 vac.

    Tony
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Dropped the voltage with a 300 watt heater load, dropped it to ~125vac.  Still no joy!

    T
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Use a 14ga 50' extension cord, and plug the inverter and your dummy load into that. You should get enough drop to loose a volt or 2 in the long cord.  DO NOT coil the cord up, leave it laid out to keep itself cool.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    MIke wins wins the Gold Star!!!!  50’ of 14 cord with no dummy load, drops the voltage to 125 and change and bingo, it all works fine!  Charges full bore, and runs my motor load~ Interesting why my 200 watt load yesterday dropping it to 125 didn’t do the trick?  

    Now the next question, (and I’ll post another thread) is can I find a way to slightly lower the “normal” voltage of a 2000i?  (I’m guessing not?). Tony
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    There are the old variac variable transformers


    And you might find an auto autotransformer


    Can't look more... Ok my phone right now.

    There are some transformers that auto adjust from companies like APC UPS manufacturers. Find something used.

    Bill


    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    The problem with that idea is they are’t rated for motor loads, regardless of VA.  (That is the few that I looked at)

    T