Best learning sources for system design and NEC ?

Solarbaby · June 2018

Hi everyone, I was looking for a good book, handbook, web site or secret klingon telepatic transmission device to get solid knowledge about wiring, breakers, and best installation practices in general. So far my efforts brought nothing extraordinary in my net.

I think my electrical ignorance is not too abysmal, I know just enough to realize that there is a lot more to learn.

Thank you in advance for any cue in the direction of my technical and scientific enlightment.

Jordan from Québec, a really cold french speaking province in Canada.

6x265 watts Canadian solar poly panels, Morningstar 60 amp mppt, 4 6V Rolls batteries S-605, cheap 12V 3000 watts inverter (wish to change soon), 187 feet deep well, water at 34 feet (no pump yet). Freezer modified into a refrigerator. Wood and propane stove, solar cloth dryer (cloth line). We've been living with this solar system installed in our school bus for 2 summers and will be ready to move in the house this year, so I wish to make a better permanent installation.

List of the other dilemmas I have to solve :

- Wich type of water pump ?

- System voltage ?

- Off grid or hybrid inverter (cheaper $/watts) ?

- Small inverter plus big one in sleep mode for bigger loads ?

Estragon · June 2018

When setting up my system, I found this site to be a pretty good resource. As well as current contributors, going back through older threads offers some quite useful practical advise from folks who have been there and done that in real world applications. No Klingons AFAIK, but there may be a Vulcan or two.

If you're in a hilly part of Quebec, you may want to consider an uphill cistern for water. This would allow for slow pumping of water when solar is available, which avoids relatively inefficient use of battery storage. Water pumping sounds like it will be a big part of your overall loads, so I'd suggest getting that sorted before making any other design decisions on inverter etc. Will septic be gravity fed?

If you end up with a large-ish well pump, system voltage of 24 or 48v will make sense to support large surge current.

I do a small(12v) + large(stacked 48v) inverter combination, which works well for me, but is more complicated. It's arguably better and certainly easier to just add a bit of extra pv to cover tare losses on a single larger inverter.

As a general proposition, I'd limit inverter choices to the major brands (Outback, Schneider, etc.) sold by our hosts. Some people have had good luck with cheaper stuff, but I personally wouldn't risk it. In any case, knowing what water pumping needs are will be important in the choice.

mcgivor · June 2018

Solarbaby said:

Hi everyone, I was looking for a good book, handbook, web site or secret klingon telepatic transmission device to get solid knowledge about wiring, breakers, and best installation practices in general. So far my efforts brought nothing extraordinary in my net.
I think my electrical ignorance is not too abysmal, I know just enough to realize that there is a lot more to learn.

Thank you in advance for any cue in the direction of my technical and scientific enlightment.

Jordan from Québec, a really cold french speaking province in Canada.

6x265 watts Canadian solar poly panels, Morningstar 60 amp mppt, 4 6V Rolls batteries S-605, cheap 12V 3000 watts inverter (wish to change soon), 187 feet deep well, water at 34 feet (no pump yet). Freezer modified into a refrigerator. Wood and propane stove, solar cloth dryer (cloth line). We've been living with this solar system installed in our school bus for 2 summers and will be ready to move in the house this year, so I wish to make a better permanent installation.

List of the other dilemmas I have to solve :

- Wich type of water pump ?
- System voltage ?
- Off grid or hybrid inverter (cheaper $/watts) ?
- Small inverter plus big one in sleep mode for bigger loads ?

Go to the top of this page, click on store, click on learning center, there you will find a wealth of information, the code applicable to Canada is not the NEC, by the way, CSA publishes the code book for Canada, if you can get your hands on a CSA code handbook which explains rules, rationale and intent, this would be extremely helpful, more in layman's terms, rather than the legal, notwithstanding clauses rules, found in the regular code book.

Dave Angelini · June 2018

The electrical and frankly all of the Home Depot books on plumbing, hvac, ... are all very decent for a beginner. They also show modern components on the shelves in the biggest of big box stores.

BB. · June 2018

In the forum Working FAQ, some reading suggestions:

http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/99323#Comment_99323

-Bill

mike95490 · June 2018

Klingons are not telepathic, so that option is out. Vulkans use the Mind Meld, but humans seldom survive that.

littleharbor2 · June 2018

Solar Electricity International is a good online source for people serious about getting into the industry. They have hands on training too, which is great if you are in Colorado. Courses offered start with Solar 101 and run the gambit of off grid and grid direct design as well as other aspects of renewable energy systems concluding with NABCEP testing preparation should you chose to go that far.

Solarbaby · July 2019

Hi, thank you for the great pointers. I have learned a bit more about system design and protection in the last year.

Oh, we now have a well pump, it's a Grundfos 120 volts AC with buit in electronic soft start. Run just fine on our cheap Canadian Tire 3000 watts 12 volts inverter (yes 3000 watts is A LOT of amps in 12 volts, I hope to upgrade to 24 or 48 volts soon, wich mean getting a better inverter).

There is still 2 big grey areas I need to trow light on but I guess I should create separate posts...

1- Fusing and grounding. There seems to have great debate and different practices between North America, Europe and Australia in the way safety and fire concerns are dealt with and many changes have been made to US code in recent years following major fires. Wich way should I go for my small (2kw) off grid installation ?

2- Running a washing machine with a Modified Sine Inverter (or a genset). I read on this forum that Home Power used to maintain a list of the models that can run with MS inverters but I can't find that list. Is there a way other than trying to determine if a washing machin will work on MS ? I don't really want to move and test SEVERAL washers... A bit bulky !

Sorry again for my weird english. I speak french : )

Did somebody noticed my nickname ? Yes it's in reference to the old 80's post-apocalyptic movie : )

Estragon · July 2019

With a C.T. inverter, I assume you're in Canada. In theory, all electrical codes are local, but most largely go with the national or maybe provincially modified code. In theory, local code applies everywhere in the jurisdiction, but in many off-grid locations you'll just get a funny look if you go for a permit. IMHO, off-grid it's better to be safe than adhere strictly to code.

For example, code in Canada called for split circuits for duplex recepticles in kitchens, but I wanted a gfci duplex near waterworks. I did the gfci outlet. The split circuit thing is so you can't run a toaster and coffee maker on the same duplex at the same time. Seems to me the gfci near waterworks is safer than saving me a trip to the breaker box if the circuit gets overloaded.

Fusing and grounding isn't all that complicated, but grounding can get weird in mobile applications. I'd ignore non-NA methods (again assuming you're in Canada), as differences in grid AC systems around the world mean different risks addressed etc. If you have specific questions, the members here can offer advice on them.

I'd forget about finding a washing machine that "will run" on MSW. Not all MSW inverters are created equal, so the list would have to be which machines run with which inverters. "Run" would also have to be defined, as a motor might run, but hot enough that it fails early. I'd just get a machine that otherwise does what I need, and a PSW inverter to run it.

rollandelliott · July 2019

I 2nd solar energy international's book. it' covers all the basics, but doesn't get into deep details like optimum string inverter settings. etc.

Best learning sources for system design and NEC ?

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