Don't pop Water Miser caps when it is below freezing.

softdown
softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
The plastic hinge may break. 

Which reminds me of a recent subject of great interest. Why do people choose to live with long, severe winters? Why do areas with long, severe winters generally offer better statistics on factors such as crime, income, IQ, and education? 

Another thing happened that I do not recall. A little bit of battery acid got thrown into my face. If the eyes had been hit, the discomfort would have likely been significant. Surmising that, in milder weather, I used my fingers instead of more aggressively popping the caps with a large screwdriver.

Water Miser caps would seem to enjoy varying opinions of their effectiveness. As for me, I'm pretty sure that they lower water consumption enough to warrant their usage.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Cold weather crime stats:
    Midas: Canadian Car Chase: http://youtu.be/0id9fUYb95A
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    How do the caps work in the cold? Do they freeze up with ice, or "snow" the water back to the electrolyte?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Estragon said:
    How do the caps work in the cold? Do they freeze up with ice, or "snow" the water back to the electrolyte?
    I suppose it is possible that a very thin film of ice made the caps harder to pop than normal. I only popped four before a hinge broke. Then the "tingling" on the face began...the tingle almost all of us off gridders are familiar with.

    I should proceed this afternoon since the battery plates are starting to show just a smidge. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Estragon said:
    Cold weather crime stats:
    Midas: Canadian Car Chase: 
    Ha.....that is hilarious! And pretty appropriate. 

    Though I personally fear that Canadians have crossed a certain line in the sand with the election of Prime Minister Peoplekind Cuck. I think Castro is his biological father based on a few things. Notably the almost identical appearance and the documented relationship between his mother and Castro. Castro's other son grew up with constant comparisons to his Canadian "brother". But that is completely off topic. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Don't vote - it only encourages them ;-)
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Maybe warm the caps up a bit before opening them?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Estragon said:
    Maybe warm the caps up a bit before opening them?
    Perhaps it is best to wait until the batteries are charged to prevent overfilling. Each large (~140 lbs) cell seemed at least a 1/2 cup fuller after charging. 

    Everything was pretty routine after the temperature reached 40Freedom. It should be noted that these caps do best with a very strong push to ensure that they are properly closed. They will click close with a normal push, then click again with a stronger push. At least mine do that.

    Now I wonder what will happen tonight when the battery descends to ~0F. The freshly installed water will likely freeze and expand and.......? It was ~2pm when I added a cup of water to each ~140 lb cell. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    When cold, plastic gets much stiffer and brittle.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    mike95490 said:
    When cold, plastic gets much stiffer and brittle.
    My conclusion is that a micro film of ice likely developed due to melting snow and the 0F overnight temperature. 

    It did not get below ~20F last night. The newly added water did not freeze. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 520 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    I just spent a long weekend at my "summer cottage". Temperatures this year went to about -10F at night. Solar panels were working fine. But as to the batteries, I didn't even look at them. Considering only 50 Ah were accumulated over 3 months of winter charging, I figured they were fine and never checked the electrolyte.
    Island cottage solar system with appriximately 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing due south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter which has performed flawlessly since 1994. Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller four 467A-h AGM batteries. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge 1/4hp GSW piston pump. My 31st year.
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